Another new Brexit thread

[mcfc1632]

#butthurt, #piningforMay&Robbins

 

[west didsblue]

N'yet.

Yep.

A real Russian would hide his delight that this country is on its way to becoming poorer and globally diminished in all areas.

You’re obviously just a deluded English nationalist who’s either been taken in by the lies or can’t bring himself to admit he’s been duped.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

This may well be true; it may also not be.

Don’t forget, we may well have a lot of lying bastards in politics but that doesn’t mean many in Europe aren’t also lying bastards!

The discussions may very well not be to what this bloke wants so he could easily be being bitter about that and taking shite.

We should never just believe everything we hear just because it suits one side of the argument. We should always delve deeper into everything, both sides of the coin, fact checking and not only reading one side of the bias’ views.

Only reading the views of the side you think is your side causes warped views of the topic, of the opposition and also causes extremism and makes people think that views opposing theirs are extremist on the other side. That’s even aimed at moderates by extremists!

This goes for all things, of course. There’s too much of this one-sided thinking across society at the moment. If everyone sat back and realised that it is plainly fucking IMPOSSIBLE their side of thinking can be correct in every aspect of any and all topics, society would be a better place.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

This may well be true; it may also not be.

Don’t forget, we may well have a lot of lying bastards in politics but that doesn’t mean many in Europe aren’t also lying bastards!

The discussions may very well not be to what this bloke wants so he could easily be being bitter about that and taking shite.

We should never just believe everything we hear just because it suits one side of the argument. We should always delve deeper into everything, both sides of the coin, fact checking and not only reading one side of the bias’ views.

Only reading the views of the side you think is your side causes warped views of the topic, of the opposition and also causes extremism and makes people think that views opposing theirs are extremist on the other side.

This goes for all things, of course. There’s too much of this one-sided thinking across society at the moment. If everyone sat back and realised that it is plainly fucking IMPOSSIBLE their side of thinking can be correct in every aspect of any and all topics, society would be a better place.

You’re absolutely correct that one side can’t always be right and we should agree on far more things than we do because of entrenched positions. I voted remain but I’m in no way crying or trying to find a way back into the EU. That’s done and dusted. What I do worry about is us cutting off our nose to spite our face when trying to agree a trade deal with them and the absolute refusal of some people to accept a ‘no deal’ would be a absolute catastrophe for the vast majority of people in this country, even without a Covid-Wrecked economy. The fact that we have that means we should be pulling out all the stops to sort out a FTA with as few barriers as possible. This would be true without the world becoming more insular, without us falling out with the Chinese and without Agent Orange in the White House. All those things now being true means we really should be getting this sorted, after all it’s ‘oven-ready’.
My frustration with SOME leavers is that, when you question the substance of a trade deal and the huge disadvantages of WTO trading, especially at this moment in history, all you get is pithy comments about, losers/remoaners/getting over it, some desperate desire to see the EU and it’s economy collapse and other such stuff but no ideas/suggestions about how this might all play out and what the advantages of these scenarios might be.
What always fails to be acknowledged is the most important aspect of trade is proximity and any clue about what the plan is if EU trade reduces by a significant amount.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

You’re absolutely correct that one side can’t always be right and we should agree on far more things than we do because of entrenched positions. I voted remain but I’m in no way crying or trying to find a way back into the EU. That’s done and dusted. What I do worry about is us cutting off our nose to spite our face when trying to agree a trade deal with them and the absolute refusal of some people to accept a ‘no deal’ would be a absolute catastrophe for the vast majority of people in this country, even without a Covid-Wrecked economy. The fact that we have that means we should be pulling out all the stops to sort out a FTA with as few barriers as possible. This would be true without the world becoming more insular, without us falling out with the Chinese and without Agent Orange in the White House. All those things now being true means we really should be getting this sorted, after all it’s ‘oven-ready’.
My frustration with SOME leavers is that, when you question the substance of a trade deal and the huge disadvantages of WTO trading, especially at this moment in history, all you get is pithy comments about, losers/remoaners/getting over it, some desperate desire to see the EU and it’s economy collapse and other such stuff but no ideas/suggestions about how this might all play out and what the advantages of these scenarios might be.
What always fails to be acknowledged is the most important aspect of trade is proximity and any clue about what the plan is if EU trade reduces by a significant amount.

I voted Remain in 2016 too because I hadn’t read enough information on what Leave would actually entail. Not through not looking for it, but because it just wasn’t available.

But that doesn’t mean I voted Remain because I think being in the EU is a good thing. I’ve always been a Eurosceptic. With more information available since 2016, I think I may have voted Leave in a second referendum, had Labour got in (who I voted for) in the GE.

There seems to be a lack of long term thinking on this topic as well.

Many who oppose Brexit seem to come across like they think that the difficulties we’ll initially face will be difficulties for us forever. Is there any evidence that they will even be that much more than short term difficulties?

And yeah, I completely agree in your view of some Leavers and, unfortunately, some on the other side act like they want us to face long term struggles just so they can say they were right. That comes from that warped view of only reading and believing in one side of bias, both ways.

I’ve always said that no side in this argument are right and no side are wrong. For every good thing people can say about being in the EU, people can also bring up a list just as long with bad points.

What we need is more information on the thinking behind why leaving with no deal is a good thing. Much like being or not being in the EU has good and bad points both ways; there MUST be something positive and productive that will come from No Deal. Surely? Politicians can be stupid, but can they be that stupid that there would be no short term and even no long term positives from No Deal?

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Yep.

A real Russian would hide his delight that this country is on its way to becoming poorer and globally diminished in all areas.

You’re obviously just a deluded English nationalist who’s either been taken in by the lies or can’t bring himself to admit he’s been duped.

You appear to have a hard on for all things Russkie, and what's this
crap about being 'Globally Diminished?' I'm sure the rest of the world is
now agog at the powerhouses of Bulgaria and Latvia since they joined the EU.
You're obviously someone who hates the UK, who can't understand why the rest
of us don't.

 

[west didsblue]

You appear to have a hard on for all things Russkie, and what's this
crap about being 'Globally Diminished?' I'm sure the rest of the world is
now agog at the powerhouses of Bulgaria and Latvia since they joined the EU.
You're obviously someone who hates the UK, who can't understand why the rest
of us don't.

You’re the one who hates the UK. You’re delighted that we’re handing NI over to the EU and don’t care if the Scots go independent. There will be no UK if that happens. We will just be England or maybe Southern Great Britain if the Welsh stick with us.

What the fuck have Bulgaria and Latvia got to do with anything?

 

[bluethrunthru]

You’re the one who hates the UK. You’re delighted that we’re handing NI over to the EU and don’t care if the Scots go independent. There will be no UK if that happens. We will just be England or maybe Southern Great Britain if the Welsh stick with us.

What the fuck have Bulgaria and Latvia got to do with anything?

seems to be misunderstood in thinking that joining the EU would make Bulgaria and Latvia as independent states somehow "bigger" on the world stage when clearly the object of the exercise for them is a recognition that there are limits on what they can achieve and have therefore opted to become part of a group which as a collective is a bigger entity - we are heading the opposite way for reasons of ....well....gammon..

 

[Saddleworth2]

And it really was/is the gift that keeps on giving......

All those years of Remainer high-handed smugness on here have been replaced by 6 months (and counting) of bitterness and quivering bottom lips - they can give it out, but.....

And, of course, every day we get several doses of outright denial of inconvenient truths - some of them are becoming a collective parody.

We have years of this ahead of us.

Should the (Brexit related) economic tsunami stubbornly fail to materialise, I forecast no end of creativity in ways to still apportion blame as the Remainers squirm.

and if it does, will you recognise it?

 

[west didsblue]

and if it does, will you recognise it?

It will be Remainers’ fault obviously.
Every fucking post of his is a none too convincing attempt to shift the blame for any negative consequence of the reality of his wet dream.

 

[mcfc1632]

and if it does, will you recognise it?

Yes I will - as I will be able to recognise economic issues that are not the result of Brexit but which some Remainers, not aimed at you, will desperately seek to lay at the Brexit door.

I will also be able to spot and comment on the emerging fractures across the EU - which I hope will be delayed for a few years, but.....

I will also be able to comment on the benefits to the UK of not being involved in the future EU 'difficulties' - starting with avoiding (hopefully) being embroiled the 2021 MFF round and the associated costs of £Billions-many

It is telling that Remainers have studiously avoided commenting on the impact to the UK of the MFF if we had Remained - there is a good reason for that - well a couple I would suggest.

I look forward to being here discussing all such issues with you because you remain (no pun intended) one of the reducing number that can be objective

 

[Blue Hefner]

I voted Remain in 2016 too because I hadn’t read enough information on what Leave would actually entail. Not through not looking for it, but because it just wasn’t available.

But that doesn’t mean I voted Remain because I think being in the EU is a good thing. I’ve always been a Eurosceptic. With more information available since 2016, I think I may have voted Leave in a second referendum, had Labour got in (who I voted for) in the GE.

There seems to be a lack of long term thinking on this topic as well.

Many who oppose Brexit seem to come across like they think that the difficulties we’ll initially face will be difficulties for us forever. Is there any evidence that they will even be that much more than short term difficulties?

And yeah, I completely agree in your view of some Leavers and, unfortunately, some on the other side act like they want us to face long term struggles just so they can say they were right. That comes from that warped view of only reading and believing in one side of bias, both ways.

I’ve always said that no side in this argument are right and no side are wrong. For every good thing people can say about being in the EU, people can also bring up a list just as long with bad points.

What we need is more information on the thinking behind why leaving with no deal is a good thing. Much like being or not being in the EU has good and bad points both ways; there MUST be something positive and productive that will come from No Deal. Surely? Politicians can be stupid, but can they be that stupid that there would be no short term and even no long term positives from No Deal?

No. Just the 50 years which Rees-Mogg cited

 

[BobKowalski]

Arf.

The UK government has submitted applications to the EU to create Border Control Posts at Northern Ireland's ports.

https://bbc.in/2BNMAE9

 

[Didsbury Dave]

It will be Remainers’ fault obviously.
Every fucking post of his is a none too convincing attempt to shift the blame for any negative consequence of the reality of his wet dream.

I stopped reading posts by this insufferable bloviator a long long time ago but I noticed back even then that every single one was about “Remainers” rather than the actual issues relating to Brexit or the EU.

 

[Saddleworth2]

It will be Remainers’ fault obviously.
Every fucking post of his is a none too convincing attempt to shift the blame for any negative consequence of the reality of his wet dream.

I once worked with an American consultant that used to use the phrase 'what is, is'. It used to annoy the hell out of me but its truthful when you are forced to face the reality of a situation. The consequences of a new trade deal or god forbid no deal should be easily discernible to those that value fact. At that point, we should either applaud and admit we were wrong or administer a very sound kicking.

 

[Vic]

Lol, indeed, not only did all her plotting and pro EU subterfuge end up down the shitter,
it actually boosted the Tory vote by a massive margin.
Whatever the fuck it is she does for a living, it's not exactly a plus on her CV.

No idea how you reckon that. A parliamentary vote to invoke Article 50 was her case. She won and the Tories then lost their majority in the 2017 GE.

Just wrong again.

 

[Vic]

Yes I will - as I will be able to recognise economic issues that are not the result of Brexit but which some Remainers, not aimed at you, will desperately seek to lay at the Brexit door.

I will also be able to spot and comment on the emerging fractures across the EU - which I hope will be delayed for a few years, but.....

I will also be able to comment on the benefits to the UK of not being involved in the future EU 'difficulties' - starting with avoiding (hopefully) being embroiled the 2021 MFF round and the associated costs of £Billions-many

It is telling that Remainers have studiously avoided commenting on the impact to the UK of the MFF if we had Remained - there is a good reason for that - well a couple I would suggest.

I look forward to being here discussing all such issues with you because you remain (no pun intended) one of the reducing number that can be objective

I didn't avoid it. After one of your bloviation posts I responded.

It's the economy, stupid.

Whatever the MFF, whatever Covid loans/grants are made, the cost to the UK would be less than the lost GDP from leaving (even with a deal). But you'd know that from reading the Treasury's forecasts.

 

[Vic]

No. Just the 50 years which Rees-Mogg cited

Henning Wehn says no-one will be bothered about Brexit 500 years from now.

 

[meltonblue]

Yes I will - as I will be able to recognise economic issues that are not the result of Brexit but which some Remainers, not aimed at you, will desperately seek to lay at the Brexit door.

I will also be able to spot and comment on the emerging fractures across the EU - which I hope will be delayed for a few years, but.....

I will also be able to comment on the benefits to the UK of not being involved in the future EU 'difficulties' - starting with avoiding (hopefully) being embroiled the 2021 MFF round and the associated costs of £Billions-many

It is telling that Remainers have studiously avoided commenting on the impact to the UK of the MFF if we had Remained - there is a good reason for that - well a couple I would suggest.

I look forward to being here discussing all such issues with you because you remain (no pun intended) one of the reducing number that can be objective

To be fair, I’d hope people recently would have been commenting on and be more worried about our own governments use of taxpayer money and where it’s being allocated (ppe contracts for example) and what that potentially says about a future model with less regulatory oversight.

The concern I’ve had with all of this is we’ve taken our eyes off the bigger devils we have closer to home.

 

[Vic]

Arf.

The UK government has submitted applications to the EU to create Border Control Posts at Northern Ireland's ports.

https://bbc.in/2BNMAE9

Have I read that right? "Border control posts" are not "customs infrastructure"?