Another new Brexit thread

[west didsblue]

I stopped reading posts by this insufferable bloviator a long long time ago but I noticed back even then that every single one was about “Remainers” rather than the actual issues relating to Brexit or the EU.

The use of the word “bloviator” was enough to merit a like.

 

[Vic]

This may well be true; it may also not be.

Don’t forget, we may well have a lot of lying bastards in politics but that doesn’t mean many in Europe aren’t also lying bastards!

The discussions may very well not be to what this bloke wants so he could easily be being bitter about that and taking shite.

We should never just believe everything we hear just because it suits one side of the argument. We should always delve deeper into everything, both sides of the coin, fact checking and not only reading one side of the bias’ views.

Only reading the views of the side you think is your side causes warped views of the topic, of the opposition and also causes extremism and makes people think that views opposing theirs are extremist on the other side. That’s even aimed at moderates by extremists!

This goes for all things, of course. There’s too much of this one-sided thinking across society at the moment. If everyone sat back and realised that it is plainly fucking IMPOSSIBLE their side of thinking can be correct in every aspect of any and all topics, society would be a better place.

I hope you note that the only people liking your post are the Leavers who couldn't see past the idea that an MEP might be lying (though some of them would be very pleased if he was telling the truth).

 

[Vic]

New Brexit 50p coin

https://adclick.g.doubleclick.net/a...bu-50p-single-with-set-discount.aspx?prodsn=5

 

[bluethrunthru]

Have I read that right? "Border control posts" are not "customs infrastructure"?

where to start - control posts are not customs infrastructure? We take back control of our borders from the EU by applying to the EU to build that customs infrastructure and they are there to inspect goods traded between NI and GB.........something which as late as last December Liar Johnson was saying will never happen - fuck thats fucked up

 

[BobKowalski]

where to start - control posts are not customs infrastructure? We take back control of our borders from the EU by applying to the EU to build that customs infrastructure and they are there to inspect goods traded between NI and GB.........something which as late as last December Liar Johnson was saying will never happen - fuck thats fucked up

They are not building ‘new’ customs infrastructure, they are ‘expanding’ existing customs infrastructure over an extra 14 acres, but it’s not ‘new’ it’s just making what is there, much, much bigger. And we have to get EU approval to expand our facilities on our sovereign territory to check internal trade within our sovereign territory.

Arf.

 

[Vic]

where to start - control posts are not customs infrastructure? We take back control of our borders from the EU by applying to the EU to build that customs infrastructure and they are there to inspect goods traded between NI and GB.........something which as late as last December Liar Johnson was saying will never happen - fuck thats fucked up

I'm assuming the liars are trying to make a distinction that means they weren't lying.

'We have submitted applications for these entry points [border posts] on time and there will be no new customs infrastructure in Northern Ireland.'

So "limited expansion" means a vast new shed that isn't new infrastructure. Ignorance is Strength.

 

[bluethrunthru]

They are not building ‘new’ customs infrastructure, they are ‘expanding’ existing customs infrastructure over an extra 14 acres, but it’s not ‘new’ it’s just making what is there, much, much bigger. And we have to get EU approval to expand our facilities on our sovereign territory to check internal trade within our sovereign territory.

Arf.

PMSL - can't find the posters that refer to check on the Irish Sea border nor asking EU permission


https://images.app.goo.gl/GLXRiftepEJcxtx28

https://images.app.goo.gl/uejtCDLoAUoANWV48

 

[Tb1981]

This may well be true; it may also not be.

Don’t forget, we may well have a lot of lying bastards in politics but that doesn’t mean many in Europe aren’t also lying bastards!

The discussions may very well not be to what this bloke wants so he could easily be being bitter about that and taking shite.

We should never just believe everything we hear just because it suits one side of the argument. We should always delve deeper into everything, both sides of the coin, fact checking and not only reading one side of the bias’ views.

Only reading the views of the side you think is your side causes warped views of the topic, of the opposition and also causes extremism and makes people think that views opposing theirs are extremist on the other side. That’s even aimed at moderates by extremists!

This goes for all things, of course. There’s too much of this one-sided thinking across society at the moment. If everyone sat back and realised that it is plainly fucking IMPOSSIBLE their side of thinking can be correct in every aspect of any and all topics, society would be a better place.

Please don’t come in on this forum talking sense.
I can’t cope with it

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Please don’t come in on this forum talking sense.
I can’t cope with it

Interesting to see how a view that is not completely black and white and polarised was pretty much ignored.

 

[meltonblue]

It’s a lot harder for a lying bastard to do as much damage in a bigger democratic bloc though.

It’s a be careful what you wish for thing really. Greater individual freedom and democratic control is fine as an aspiration but not if the incumbent government is doing everything to reduce scrutiny and the role of Parliament at the same time.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

 

[Tb1981]

Interesting to see how a view that is not completely black and white and polarised was pretty much ignored.

Well it’s nice to see someone who doesn’t pretend to know everything.
Lot of know it all copy and paste merchants on here and it gets boring

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Here’s something looking a bit more positively into the long term, instead of thinking the island is going to sink into the North Atlantic after 1st January.

CANZUK
https://www.canzukinternational.com/2018/04/poll-2018.html



Why We Must Have A Post-Brexit CANZUK Agreement
Britain’s future will depend on our ability to bring together Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and ourselves into a working partnership based on free movement and trade

What do we do after Brexit?

It’s such an obvious question. Shouldn’t it be the main question that we as a country ought to be asking ourselves, and, if not, shouldn’t it at least be higher up the list? While conversations about cabinet strife and devolution are important it seems odd that so little attention is being paid to the nuts and bolts of what Britain does post-Brexit.

It is especially disheartening because there is such an obvious solution that, if we get it right, will benefit Britain, our potential partners, and the world. There is a group of countries that we could join with and with whom a close bond already exists. Britain’s future will depend on our ability to bring together Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and ourselves into a working partnership based on free movement and trade. For a post-Brexit Britain, the best future is a #CANZUK one.

The potential for CANZUK is extraordinary. The four countries contain over 132 million people, according to the UN, and account for more than 10 per cent of global GDP – a staggering amount of economic activity, especially considering that the group only has 1.7% of global population. These four nations are culturally influential, highly economically developed, and our societies are underpinned by liberal democratic principles. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom all protect minorities, including LGBT people, and are bound together by the Enlightenment tradition. This is not to mention the history that, regardless of its historical morality, forms the kind of bond between countries that cannot be destroyed but which are ideal foundations on which to build.

The four CANZUK countries also have much in common in cultural terms. We have similar business practices, watch a lot of the same TV, visit the same websites, and listen to much of the same music as one another. Many of us have families who live in the other CANZUK countries and we are all led by the same head of state – Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. We already have a ‘personal union’ – if our nations are not primed for further cooperation, which ones are? In fact, according to the campaign group, CANZUK International, there is extensive public support for a CANZUK free trade area in all four countries. In New Zealand it is as high as 82 percent while 76 percent of Canadians are in favour, as are 73 percent of Australians – there’s even 68 percent public support for the it in the United Kingdom.

Support for CANZUK has also been expressed by several key politicians from across the nations. Canada’s Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, has been making some very positive sounds on trade, particularly with Britain, even going so far as to promise that a trade discussion between the two countries would begin the “day after Brexit”; while former Australian PM, Tony Abbot, has called for freer movement between his country and Britain. On an academic level, the influential Adam Smith Institute think-tank has also thrown its considerable intellectual weight behind building the alliance.

For anyone who has found the recent politics to be depressing, the possibility of a CANZUK agreement provides the perfect antidote to their understandable doldrums. There is massive potential for economic cooperation, promoting human rights, building global security, enforcing standards, working with other international organisations (including the European Union), and encouraging the sharing and developing of ideas, technology, principles, and best practice. The CANZUK nations already cooperate extensively together and have achieved much; imagine how much we could achieve with more focus and deeper cooperation. This is surely a cause to be optimistic – and we can all share in it expressed in our common language.

United as they are by history, common law, security concerns and practices, language, mentality, culture, and a dedication to the fairness and work ethic that are characteristic of Western liberal democracies, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom already do so much together. A free movement and trade area would help to that capacity to achieve and would, if done correctly, avoid unneeded and unwanted bureaucracy.

The CANZUK proposition is backed by the most convincing political, economic, philosophical, and even moral arguments available and there is evidence to suggest that the people of each country support it. If enough political will can be found to get behind CANZUK, not only will Britain be lifted out of the uncertain gloom that the way Brexit has been handled has created towards a bright future, but we will be joined by three of our oldest, dearest, and most reliable allies in a modern partnership that stands ready to embrace the challenges and opportunities that such a future will bring.
https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...otf3LSIqyyFJ4T8EhkAyiF7nK5CIINCv-x9U9ncqt-FEy

 

[Vic]

Here’s something looking a bit more positively into the long term, instead of thinking the island is going to sink into the North Atlantic after 1st January.

CANZUK
https://www.canzukinternational.com/2018/04/poll-2018.html



Why We Must Have A Post-Brexit CANZUK Agreement
Britain’s future will depend on our ability to bring together Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and ourselves into a working partnership based on free movement and trade

What do we do after Brexit?

It’s such an obvious question. Shouldn’t it be the main question that we as a country ought to be asking ourselves, and, if not, shouldn’t it at least be higher up the list? While conversations about cabinet strife and devolution are important it seems odd that so little attention is being paid to the nuts and bolts of what Britain does post-Brexit.

It is especially disheartening because there is such an obvious solution that, if we get it right, will benefit Britain, our potential partners, and the world. There is a group of countries that we could join with and with whom a close bond already exists. Britain’s future will depend on our ability to bring together Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and ourselves into a working partnership based on free movement and trade. For a post-Brexit Britain, the best future is a #CANZUK one.

The potential for CANZUK is extraordinary. The four countries contain over 132 million people, according to the UN, and account for more than 10 per cent of global GDP – a staggering amount of economic activity, especially considering that the group only has 1.7% of global population. These four nations are culturally influential, highly economically developed, and our societies are underpinned by liberal democratic principles. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom all protect minorities, including LGBT people, and are bound together by the Enlightenment tradition. This is not to mention the history that, regardless of its historical morality, forms the kind of bond between countries that cannot be destroyed but which are ideal foundations on which to build.

The four CANZUK countries also have much in common in cultural terms. We have similar business practices, watch a lot of the same TV, visit the same websites, and listen to much of the same music as one another. Many of us have families who live in the other CANZUK countries and we are all led by the same head of state – Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. We already have a ‘personal union’ – if our nations are not primed for further cooperation, which ones are? In fact, according to the campaign group, CANZUK International, there is extensive public support for a CANZUK free trade area in all four countries. In New Zealand it is as high as 82 percent while 76 percent of Canadians are in favour, as are 73 percent of Australians – there’s even 68 percent public support for the it in the United Kingdom.

Support for CANZUK has also been expressed by several key politicians from across the nations. Canada’s Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, has been making some very positive sounds on trade, particularly with Britain, even going so far as to promise that a trade discussion between the two countries would begin the “day after Brexit”; while former Australian PM, Tony Abbot, has called for freer movement between his country and Britain. On an academic level, the influential Adam Smith Institute think-tank has also thrown its considerable intellectual weight behind building the alliance.

For anyone who has found the recent politics to be depressing, the possibility of a CANZUK agreement provides the perfect antidote to their understandable doldrums. There is massive potential for economic cooperation, promoting human rights, building global security, enforcing standards, working with other international organisations (including the European Union), and encouraging the sharing and developing of ideas, technology, principles, and best practice. The CANZUK nations already cooperate extensively together and have achieved much; imagine how much we could achieve with more focus and deeper cooperation. This is surely a cause to be optimistic – and we can all share in it expressed in our common language.

United as they are by history, common law, security concerns and practices, language, mentality, culture, and a dedication to the fairness and work ethic that are characteristic of Western liberal democracies, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom already do so much together. A free movement and trade area would help to that capacity to achieve and would, if done correctly, avoid unneeded and unwanted bureaucracy.

The CANZUK proposition is backed by the most convincing political, economic, philosophical, and even moral arguments available and there is evidence to suggest that the people of each country support it. If enough political will can be found to get behind CANZUK, not only will Britain be lifted out of the uncertain gloom that the way Brexit has been handled has created towards a bright future, but we will be joined by three of our oldest, dearest, and most reliable allies in a modern partnership that stands ready to embrace the challenges and opportunities that such a future will bring.
https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...otf3LSIqyyFJ4T8EhkAyiF7nK5CIINCv-x9U9ncqt-FEy

"Britain’s future will depend on our ability to bring together Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and ourselves into a working partnership based on free movement and trade".

Then we are indeed stuffed.

I can't believe Huffpost gave that any space. It is what I believe is these days known as an "outlier" view. As you said earlier, "Only reading the views of the side you think is your side causes warped views of the topic". Try wikipedia on canzuk, "contrary views".

 

[BobKowalski]

Here’s something looking a bit more positively into the long term, instead of thinking the island is going to sink into the North Atlantic after 1st January.

CANZUK
https://www.canzukinternational.com/2018/04/poll-2018.html



Why We Must Have A Post-Brexit CANZUK Agreement
Britain’s future will depend on our ability to bring together Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and ourselves into a working partnership based on free movement and trade

What do we do after Brexit?

It’s such an obvious question. Shouldn’t it be the main question that we as a country ought to be asking ourselves, and, if not, shouldn’t it at least be higher up the list? While conversations about cabinet strife and devolution are important it seems odd that so little attention is being paid to the nuts and bolts of what Britain does post-Brexit.

It is especially disheartening because there is such an obvious solution that, if we get it right, will benefit Britain, our potential partners, and the world. There is a group of countries that we could join with and with whom a close bond already exists. Britain’s future will depend on our ability to bring together Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and ourselves into a working partnership based on free movement and trade. For a post-Brexit Britain, the best future is a #CANZUK one.

The potential for CANZUK is extraordinary. The four countries contain over 132 million people, according to the UN, and account for more than 10 per cent of global GDP – a staggering amount of economic activity, especially considering that the group only has 1.7% of global population. These four nations are culturally influential, highly economically developed, and our societies are underpinned by liberal democratic principles. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom all protect minorities, including LGBT people, and are bound together by the Enlightenment tradition. This is not to mention the history that, regardless of its historical morality, forms the kind of bond between countries that cannot be destroyed but which are ideal foundations on which to build.

The four CANZUK countries also have much in common in cultural terms. We have similar business practices, watch a lot of the same TV, visit the same websites, and listen to much of the same music as one another. Many of us have families who live in the other CANZUK countries and we are all led by the same head of state – Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. We already have a ‘personal union’ – if our nations are not primed for further cooperation, which ones are? In fact, according to the campaign group, CANZUK International, there is extensive public support for a CANZUK free trade area in all four countries. In New Zealand it is as high as 82 percent while 76 percent of Canadians are in favour, as are 73 percent of Australians – there’s even 68 percent public support for the it in the United Kingdom.

Support for CANZUK has also been expressed by several key politicians from across the nations. Canada’s Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, has been making some very positive sounds on trade, particularly with Britain, even going so far as to promise that a trade discussion between the two countries would begin the “day after Brexit”; while former Australian PM, Tony Abbot, has called for freer movement between his country and Britain. On an academic level, the influential Adam Smith Institute think-tank has also thrown its considerable intellectual weight behind building the alliance.

For anyone who has found the recent politics to be depressing, the possibility of a CANZUK agreement provides the perfect antidote to their understandable doldrums. There is massive potential for economic cooperation, promoting human rights, building global security, enforcing standards, working with other international organisations (including the European Union), and encouraging the sharing and developing of ideas, technology, principles, and best practice. The CANZUK nations already cooperate extensively together and have achieved much; imagine how much we could achieve with more focus and deeper cooperation. This is surely a cause to be optimistic – and we can all share in it expressed in our common language.

United as they are by history, common law, security concerns and practices, language, mentality, culture, and a dedication to the fairness and work ethic that are characteristic of Western liberal democracies, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom already do so much together. A free movement and trade area would help to that capacity to achieve and would, if done correctly, avoid unneeded and unwanted bureaucracy.

The CANZUK proposition is backed by the most convincing political, economic, philosophical, and even moral arguments available and there is evidence to suggest that the people of each country support it. If enough political will can be found to get behind CANZUK, not only will Britain be lifted out of the uncertain gloom that the way Brexit has been handled has created towards a bright future, but we will be joined by three of our oldest, dearest, and most reliable allies in a modern partnership that stands ready to embrace the challenges and opportunities that such a future will bring.
https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...otf3LSIqyyFJ4T8EhkAyiF7nK5CIINCv-x9U9ncqt-FEy

We should take out an Ad.

‘Wanted. New countries to trade and hang with. Pref. Ex-Commonwealth. Must be mainly white and speak English. GSOH. Box No 7448’

 

[Saddleworth2]

Here’s something looking a bit more positively into the long term, instead of thinking the island is going to sink into the North Atlantic after 1st January.

CANZUK
https://www.canzukinternational.com/2018/04/poll-2018.html



Why We Must Have A Post-Brexit CANZUK Agreement
Britain’s future will depend on our ability to bring together Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and ourselves into a working partnership based on free movement and trade

What do we do after Brexit?

It’s such an obvious question. Shouldn’t it be the main question that we as a country ought to be asking ourselves, and, if not, shouldn’t it at least be higher up the list? While conversations about cabinet strife and devolution are important it seems odd that so little attention is being paid to the nuts and bolts of what Britain does post-Brexit.

It is especially disheartening because there is such an obvious solution that, if we get it right, will benefit Britain, our potential partners, and the world. There is a group of countries that we could join with and with whom a close bond already exists. Britain’s future will depend on our ability to bring together Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and ourselves into a working partnership based on free movement and trade. For a post-Brexit Britain, the best future is a #CANZUK one.

The potential for CANZUK is extraordinary. The four countries contain over 132 million people, according to the UN, and account for more than 10 per cent of global GDP – a staggering amount of economic activity, especially considering that the group only has 1.7% of global population. These four nations are culturally influential, highly economically developed, and our societies are underpinned by liberal democratic principles. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom all protect minorities, including LGBT people, and are bound together by the Enlightenment tradition. This is not to mention the history that, regardless of its historical morality, forms the kind of bond between countries that cannot be destroyed but which are ideal foundations on which to build.

The four CANZUK countries also have much in common in cultural terms. We have similar business practices, watch a lot of the same TV, visit the same websites, and listen to much of the same music as one another. Many of us have families who live in the other CANZUK countries and we are all led by the same head of state – Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. We already have a ‘personal union’ – if our nations are not primed for further cooperation, which ones are? In fact, according to the campaign group, CANZUK International, there is extensive public support for a CANZUK free trade area in all four countries. In New Zealand it is as high as 82 percent while 76 percent of Canadians are in favour, as are 73 percent of Australians – there’s even 68 percent public support for the it in the United Kingdom.

Support for CANZUK has also been expressed by several key politicians from across the nations. Canada’s Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, has been making some very positive sounds on trade, particularly with Britain, even going so far as to promise that a trade discussion between the two countries would begin the “day after Brexit”; while former Australian PM, Tony Abbot, has called for freer movement between his country and Britain. On an academic level, the influential Adam Smith Institute think-tank has also thrown its considerable intellectual weight behind building the alliance.

For anyone who has found the recent politics to be depressing, the possibility of a CANZUK agreement provides the perfect antidote to their understandable doldrums. There is massive potential for economic cooperation, promoting human rights, building global security, enforcing standards, working with other international organisations (including the European Union), and encouraging the sharing and developing of ideas, technology, principles, and best practice. The CANZUK nations already cooperate extensively together and have achieved much; imagine how much we could achieve with more focus and deeper cooperation. This is surely a cause to be optimistic – and we can all share in it expressed in our common language.

United as they are by history, common law, security concerns and practices, language, mentality, culture, and a dedication to the fairness and work ethic that are characteristic of Western liberal democracies, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom already do so much together. A free movement and trade area would help to that capacity to achieve and would, if done correctly, avoid unneeded and unwanted bureaucracy.

The CANZUK proposition is backed by the most convincing political, economic, philosophical, and even moral arguments available and there is evidence to suggest that the people of each country support it. If enough political will can be found to get behind CANZUK, not only will Britain be lifted out of the uncertain gloom that the way Brexit has been handled has created towards a bright future, but we will be joined by three of our oldest, dearest, and most reliable allies in a modern partnership that stands ready to embrace the challenges and opportunities that such a future will bring.
https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...otf3LSIqyyFJ4T8EhkAyiF7nK5CIINCv-x9U9ncqt-FEy

Do they do tomatoes, cucumber and avocados though?

 

[Ancient Citizen]

No idea how you reckon that. A parliamentary vote to invoke Article 50 was her case. She won and the Tories then lost their majority in the 2017 GE.

Just wrong again.

It's a strange world you inhabit mate, she won jack shit, the Tories remained in power,
and Labour was still shy of them by a fair majority. Gina and Co. failed in their attempts
to thwart democracy, we won, she lost.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

You’re the one who hates the UK. You’re delighted that we’re handing NI over to the EU and don’t care if the Scots go independent. There will be no UK if that happens. We will just be England or maybe Southern Great Britain if the Welsh stick with us.

What the fuck have Bulgaria and Latvia got to do with anything?

No mate, another recent poll says the Scottish independence movement is now
higher than 50%, if you want someone to rail against about the break up of the union,
try them. I, along with many others, never wanted this, but when we now have to
endure Nationalists in our parliament, and their incessant whining, then patience
wears thin.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

We should take out an Ad.

‘Wanted. New countries to trade and hang with. Pref. Ex-Commonwealth. Must be mainly white and speak English. GSOH. Box No 7448’

The organisation behind it are based in Vancouver, Canada. The politician most behind it is Trudeau, from Canada.

None of those countries are “Ex-Commonwealth”. All four are in the Commonwealth.

And what’s race got to do with it?

 

[Vic]

It's a strange world you inhabit mate, she won jack shit, the Tories remained in power,
and Labour was still shy of them by a fair majority. Gina and Co. failed in their attempts
to thwart democracy, we won, she lost.

How is asking for a vote by Parliament "thwarting democracy"? Strange world.