BBC licence fee

[Two Gun Bob]

and I bet you'll cry like a baby when you get fined.....

How will he get fined ?
No entry and no signing of the self incriminating 178 form = Zero prosecution

 

[Rascal]

Nope, again, it’s not cancelling it, the BBC can still function as a business and is welcome to put any content it wishes out, I am purely opposed to having to forcefully subscribe, should I want to watch other tele and services and be forced to subscribe to content I do not necessarily want.

The institution has some great content but there’s a bit of a rotten agenda within certain areas and let’s just say it has a very dodgy past with nonces.

Far and away my main grievance is the state interfering with what I watch on tele in my private home, the rest of your points come secondary to me.

Well I never want anyone to lose their jobs, even those I disagree with most and no doubt some likely would if it were privatised but it shouldn’t be the fault nor the responsibility of the public to prop up a broadcaster. From a moral position the forced subscription from the population is more immoral to me than people having to be competitive in finding a new role.

Regarding costs, again, it’s currently costing the majority of homes in this country £150 per year for the privilege of even being able to watch normal TV, it’s a joke. I’d rather it was in private hands and I and my bloody 80 year old Nan, on a state pension, didn’t have to pay it, I’m likely going to have to pay it for her anyway, so that’s now £300 a year for me.

We’re never going to agree as you support public ownership and authoritarian measures and I do not, the fact pensioners now have to also pay for it, being ridiculous, is surely a point we can agree on though?

Ah, the Nonce argument.

Lets close down City because of Bennell then.

I notice you didn't address the skills issue, or the profit issue, or the soft power issue.

There is nothing authoritarian about public ownership, that is total nonsense, monopoly is more authoritarian and if the free marketeers like Murdoch get there hands on it then the UK broadcast industry is in effect a Murdocracy.

BTW you are not forced to have a licence, you can always go without a TV, just as you can go without a car if you don't agree with Road Tax. Or is road tax also immoral in a libertarian world.

The BBC is not a business in the true sense, it was never meant to be a business, it had Reithian values and certain duties to perform as a national broadcaster that other broadcasters do not have. It has a duty to provide educational programmes, arts programmes, news programmes, its not like Dave where you can watch mindlessly moronic TV for months on end.

I sense this is a debate in which minds are already cast and as much as I contribute from a position of actually having worked for the BBC my knowledge means nothing. Strange as it may be that me a person of the left is the one showing Patriotic fervour towards one of our great institutions whilst those who profess to be patriots are happy to see the bastion of Britishness sold down the river to save a quid a week as they yearn to be free from the overarching states yoke whilst happily bowing to altar of capitalist excess.

Strange times we live in. Not one person has pointed to the underhand tactics of the Government in making the BBC itself responsible for the licence fee, rather than it being a central government issue. The crafty fuckers they are, they knew what they were doing, preparing the BBC to be sold off to one of their capitalist mates in exchange for a donation to Tory party funds.

Once the BBC has gone, what is left in the cupboard to sell, maybe we could sell off the Monarchy, let Rupert buy it and make himself King or sell off the Police to G4S, the Armed Forces to Saudi Arabia, the NHS to America, the roads to Richard Branson, breathing to Amazon, then once its all gone we can all be truly free of the state and live in a Randian paradise of utopian freedom, where the strongest survive and the weak are culled at birth, but at least we will have a choice what to watch on TV, we can watch Murdoch news from the UK, Murdoch news from the USA or even Murdoch news from Australia.

Lenin pointed out that "freedom of industry" gives reign to predatory wars and the ensuing "freedom of labour" is a tool for capitalist exploitation and that "freedom of the media" ends with those with capital like Murdoch using the media they own to propagate their own propaganda in order to befuddle the masses. If you believe in those freedoms then fine, but they come with consequences. If you believe that owners of capital have your best interests at heart then all will be well when the BBC is sold off, after all you will be free to be exploited.

 

[Rascal]

Just consumer advice tell that poor person who you describe staring at their blank screen the pleasures of freview and freesat which is free.

meanwhile old comrade here would rather poor old age pensioners , and the poor are FORCED to pay for a tv licence so their lefty chum Gary Linnekar can pick up 1.75 million simply for hosting match of the day.

the left these days.

It is indeed a strange world when the politics of envy argument usually thrown at the left is used by the opponents of the left. As for Mr Lineker being a lefty I have yet to see him extol any Socialist values, he is a metro liberal with a heart, not my cup of tea, but a fine presenter of MOTD.

My WOW reply was actually aimed at the Daily addressing comment.

Perhaps you can recall which party has been using the daily address/briefing as a means of spouting Government propaganda.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

That is a lot of supposition. The reason the BBC have had to charge pensioners is because the onus was put on them as central government passed on the responsibility. A shameful act in my opinion. The Government should be responsible for ensuring that all OAPs have access to free TV.

Can you give me one example of where the BBC is wasteful?

Almost as though the government wanted to make a stick to beat the BBC with.

Out of interest (as I don't know the answer) - who made the licence fee free for over-75s?

 

[Ban-jani]

Ah, the Nonce argument.

Lets close down City because of Bennell then.

I notice you didn't address the skills issue, or the profit issue, or the soft power issue.

There is nothing authoritarian about public ownership, that is total nonsense, monopoly is more authoritarian and if the free marketeers like Murdoch get there hands on it then the UK broadcast industry is in effect a Murdocracy.

BTW you are not forced to have a licence, you can always go without a TV, just as you can go without a car if you don't agree with Road Tax. Or is road tax also immoral in a libertarian world.

The BBC is not a business in the true sense, it was never meant to be a business, it had Reithian values and certain duties to perform as a national broadcaster that other broadcasters do not have. It has a duty to provide educational programmes, arts programmes, news programmes, its not like Dave where you can watch mindlessly moronic TV for months on end.

I sense this is a debate in which minds are already cast and as much as I contribute from a position of actually having worked for the BBC my knowledge means nothing. Strange as it may be that me a person of the left is the one showing Patriotic fervour towards one of our great institutions whilst those who profess to be patriots are happy to see the bastion of Britishness sold down the river to save a quid a week as they yearn to be free from the overarching states yoke whilst happily bowing to altar of capitalist excess.

Strange times we live in. Not one person has pointed to the underhand tactics of the Government in making the BBC itself responsible for the licence fee, rather than it being a central government issue. The crafty fuckers they are, they knew what they were doing, preparing the BBC to be sold off to one of their capitalist mates in exchange for a donation to Tory party funds.

Once the BBC has gone, what is left in the cupboard to sell, maybe we could sell off the Monarchy, let Rupert buy it and make himself King or sell off the Police to G4S, the Armed Forces to Saudi Arabia, the NHS to America, the roads to Richard Branson, breathing to Amazon, then once its all gone we can all be truly free of the state and live in a Randian paradise of utopian freedom, where the strongest survive and the weak are culled at birth, but at least we will have a choice what to watch on TV, we can watch Murdoch news from the UK, Murdoch news from the USA or even Murdoch news from Australia.

Lenin pointed out that "freedom of industry" gives reign to predatory wars and the ensuing "freedom of labour" is a tool for capitalist exploitation and that "freedom of the media" ends with those with capital like Murdoch using the media they own to propagate their own propaganda in order to befuddle the masses. If you believe in those freedoms then fine, but they come with consequences. If you believe that owners of capital have your best interests at heart then all will be well when the BBC is sold off, after all you will be free to be exploited.

Bennell wasn’t protected by City and he was the only one, the BBC have had a much worse issue than City and other football clubs and you bloody well know it.

I gave you my reason, I don’t even care if it’s public owned, just don’t force me to pay if I want other TV.

I’ve recently told you I am not against public ownership of some sectors it makes sense economically. Railways being example, I’m fine to nationalise if you can present an argument how the service will be improved and will be cheaper to use, or either of those things compared with now.

The state shouldn’t be dictating to me what I can and cannot watch on my tele though and shouldn’t be forcing me to pay for something I do not want.

Road tax is there because there isn’t an alternative to driving on the roads, if you want to use a car and you only pay road tax if you own a car and use the roads.

There is a vast amount of alternatives to watching the BBC and yet we HAVE to pay them to watch any television.

Public ownership is authoritarian usually but doesn’t have to be, you’re right there somewhat but the BBC and licensing is authoritarian in the truest sense. What happens if I want to watch my own TV in my own private home and don’t pay the fee? I get fined. What happens if I don’t pay the fine?

I agree about Murdoch, I think the competition commission needs to get involved in the market to ensure monopolies of this nature don’t occur. I’m not a neoliberal that believes in just leaving the market to do whatever it likes, but I am libertarian enough to not expect the state to decide what happens in my living room.

As ever, you create a straw man of capitalism and then knock it down. People on here who are relatively content with the economic policies and set up now, maybe wanting to tweak one or two things, aren’t calling for one man to own the whole media or aren’t calling for Tesco to have a monopoly on every aspect of our lives.

Capitalism can have regulations.

On the patriotism point, I view a part of patriotism as wanting what’s best for your country and the people here, I don’t think charging £150 a year, especially pensioners now, by force, to promote a broadcaster that isn’t patriotic in its broadcasting anyway, is patriotism at all.

Whilst having many successes in its content and influence, which I won’t ever deny, they have changed and can hardly be described as being an institution that is patriotic.

 

[Ban-jani]

Almost as though the government wanted to make a stick to beat the BBC with.

Out of interest (as I don't know the answer) - who made the licence fee free for over-75s?

New Labour, who @Rascal doesn't support at all.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Rather than privatise the BBC, it needs to be pared down.

They need to sort out the scheduling, and get back to making good, honest entertaining TV.

My plan would be;

Shift all news and politics onto BBC News24.

Rationalise local Radio (maybe cut down the hours of programming, but increase local sport coverage).

Rationalise National radio by limiting it to Radio 1, 2, 3, 4, 5Live, 6Music and Asian Network, plus World Service and R4 longwave and maybe look at using more repeat programming over a 24 hour period to save money.

A cull of the executive branch and pointless middle management post.

Sort out the mess of freelance presenters and journalists.

Sort out the three areas of the trust (content/professional services/commercial), and look at overlaps in order to make savings.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Not everybody listens to the radio and if they do it's not a BBC channel.

That will be why the top 3 listened to radio stations in the UK are BBC Radio 2, R4 & R1 then eh?

 

[bluethrunthru]

plenty of businesses are making staff redundant and cutting costs whilst the BBC carries on lavish spending

The BBC has been making cuts for several years - it was a requirement of the last license fee settlement - in january just gone they announced 450 posts to go on BBC local channels.

Eastenders is a bag of shite and really not worth the expense, are you seriously suggesting pensioners should dig deep to fund this clown show?

Clown show to you - most watched BBC show to everyone else. The fact that you haven't researched your answers does you no favours. I suspect the money is a false argument from you - its clear you don't like the BBC for some reason and want it gone citing the license fee as a supposed reason.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Sort out the mess of freelance presenters and journalists.

They used to be employee's as did producers but a Govt requirement back in the 90's meant most of the shows had to be produced by external production companies and subsequently a lot of presenters and journo's were "made" to go free lance - all that was done to save money. Facts are cheap TV and Rario look and sound like that - cheap.

In your model I can't see any ref to BFBS. They and Forces TV rely on a lot of BBC content.

 

[inbetween]

It is indeed a strange world when the politics of envy argument usually thrown at the left is used by the opponents of the left. As for Mr Lineker being a lefty I have yet to see him extol any Socialist values, he is a metro liberal with a heart, not my cup of tea, but a fine presenter of MOTD.

My WOW reply was actually aimed at the Daily addressing comment.

Perhaps you can recall which party has been using the daily address/briefing as a means of spouting Government propaganda.

I don't really understand the obsession with Lineker, even if he was a lefty then well he is personally fully entitled to hold that view. We are all entitled to disagree with him too but the fact is in the context of the BBC providing he doesn't say those views on MOTD then I don't see the relevance.

Would we call a Walkers advert with Lineker in it a left-wing political broadcast? Probably not.

By the same weight anyone could say the same thing about Andrew Neil who earns a sizeable albeit smaller crust but no-one seems to care about him. He is probably more relevant too given he interviews political figures and hosts political TV shows.

Either way though, ask the majority of the population and the majority isn't arsed. You will then have a handful of folk from either the left or right who are convinced that the BBC is biased against their view which probably shows that the BBC actually is doing something right.

If the lockdown has taught me anything it's that Youtube and music is indispensable whereas the BBC, ITV etc... I really couldn't care less if they all went away completely.

TV to me is the newspapers of today, no-one watches it and no-one reads it. We get ourselves in a tangle about the political bias of BBC News yet not even 10% of the country watches the news on a daily basis.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

They used to be employee's as did producers but a Govt requirement back in the 90's meant most of the shows had to be produced by external production companies and subsequently a lot of presenters and journo's were "made" to go free lance - all that was done to save money. Facts are cheap TV and Rario look and sound like that - cheap.

In your model I can't see any ref to BFBS. They and Forces TV rely on a lot of BBC content.

From what I understand BFBS and forces TV purchase the rights to certain programming from the BBC, but I'm not sure if they receive a reduced tariff. I have no problem with that arrangement.

The BBC make an awful lot of money selling content overseas, and to UK commercial broadcasters. I think they should continue to expand that market.

It's a shame really that the BBC outsource a lot of their production. They used to be World leaders in broadcasting and production. Their technical department had some incredibly talented people working for them, making all their studio and broadcast equipment inhouse.

 

[Northernstorirs]

The BBC has been making cuts for several years - it was a requirement of the last license fee settlement - in january just gone they announced 450 posts to go on BBC local channels.



Clown show to you - most watched BBC show to everyone else. The fact that you haven't researched your answers does you no favours. I suspect the money is a false argument from you - its clear you don't like the BBC for some reason and want it gone citing the license fee as a supposed reason.

I will come back to Rascal's money argument later, preoccupied at the moment.

Still not sure why the British public should be forced to fund Eastenders or for Dan Walker to be driven every morning from Sheffield to Salford Quays. In most private sector jobs, you would be told to drive yourself or get the train at your own cost. BBC is in dreamland though funded by the public.

 

[lust overlord]

I will come back to Rascal's money argument later, preoccupied at the moment.

Still not sure why the British public should be forced to fund Eastenders or for Dan Walker to be driven every morning from Sheffield to Salford Quays. In most private sector jobs, you would be told to drive yourself or get the train at your own cost. BBC is in dreamland though funded by the public.

Most people know it isn't perfect and some reform may well be required,however, recently we seem to make a habit of throwing away whats good as well as whats bad.

And I certainly wouldn't trust this government with a pair of scissors.

 

[Fame Monster]

One of the strongest arguments for retaining the BBC is the political coverage it provides and the idea that it holds public institutions to account.

Yet today it's announced it's cut £80M from the news budget and will axe 500 jobs. Quite surprising when it just announced a couple of weeks ago that the commissioning budget for promoting 'diversity' has just been increased from £2M to £100M.

 

[Ban-jani]

One of the strongest arguments for retaining the BBC is the political coverage it provides and the idea that it holds public institutions to account.

Yet today it's announced it's cut £80M from the news budget and will axe 500 jobs. Quite surprising when it just announced a couple of weeks ago that the commissioning budget for promoting 'diversity' has just been increased from £2M to £100M.

It’s already more engaged in identity politics than the general public, increasing the budget by £98m of taxpayers money to further do it is a disgrace.

 

[Ban-jani]

I’d volley the pedophile employing, scouse and Rag sympathising, radical leftist agenda driven, middle class twunts into Salford Quays.

On a serious note, yes, privatise them and get them to compete with the rest, without forcing people to pay for the privilege.

Just coming back on here after today to say I was totally right.

Get into the river you set of Rag/Dipper loving cunts.

I’d chuck the entire building into the Quays.

 

[Northernstorirs]

Do we need any more reason to defund this biased and archaic, nonce sympathising gravy train?

 

[Ban-jani]

Do we need any more reason to defund this biased and archaic, nonce sympathising gravy train?

Get rid of the cunts.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Do we need any more reason to defund this biased and archaic, nonce sympathising gravy train?

Even as a big fan of a great deal of the BBC’s output, their nonce-protecting was a disgrace and their pro-Rag/Cult anti-City agenda is a fucking disgrace!

I think the whole of the BBC should be swept and started again from scratch.

Impartial in Politics (which it currently isn’t, by any stretch of the imagination) and in Sport (it’s even less impartial in sport than it is in politics), no agenda in any way, is the only way forward.

For every good thing the BBC puts out there, bollocks like this - which makes you want to cancel your Direct Debit for the License Fee on the spot - is abundant.

But if a clean sweep could happen, I’d be more than happy to carry on paying the Licence Fee because all of the good output is really good!