Donald Trump

[west didsblue]

"Code for, 'I didn't complain cos I liked him as a Pres'.

**I can despise the pair of them, thanks. It doesn't take critical thinking to be able to understand that.

*Nope. Irrelevant to a discussion about Trump and utter whataboutery.

**Thanks for confirming that you still haven’t worked out that Trump is worse than Biden.

 

[west didsblue]

LOL!!

Only idiots ignore the up to 100M people that don't already vote that pretty much think "...that nothing in the media can be trusted..." and “they’re all as bad as each other”.

What's your court of opinion? CNN? MSNBC? Fox? Are they telling you how HUGE the gap is and how Biden-Harris are the answer?

I don't listen to 'unsourced' material without context and people, like myself, don't swallow the unabashed nonsense from echo chambers. I listen to it all and find the overlapping sections in it all.

I doubt VERY MUCH you do anything close to that.

LOL.
That post wasn’t even about you but I assume you latched on to the random unsourced YouTube clips bit. That’s fair enough as YouTube seems to inform your opinion much more than anything credible.

 

[Bigga]

*Nope. Irrelevant to a discussion about Trump and utter whataboutery.

**Thanks for confirming that you still haven’t worked out that Trump is worse than Biden.

*Keep telling yourself that

**#45 didn't put himself into office. The guy you think is the ironic saviour helped create his entry, but you'll NEVER understand nor acknowledge that.

That's some bubble you live in!

 

[Bigga]

LOL.
That post wasn’t even about you but I assume you latched on to the random unsourced YouTube clips bit. That’s fair enough as YouTube seems to inform your opinion much more than anything credible.

You should read. I stated clearly people LIKE MYSELF within the post. I didn't take it as a personal attack.

I don't feel you have that particular kind of intelligence.

 

[west didsblue]

*Keep telling yourself that

**#45 didn't put himself into office. The guy you think is the ironic saviour helped create his entry, but you'll NEVER understand nor acknowledge that.

That's some bubble you live in!

* I will because it’s true.

** Irrelevant to my point and further proof of your bizarre inability to recognise Trump as much worse than Biden, irrespective of Biden’s faults.

 

[west didsblue]

You should read. I stated clearly people LIKE MYSELF within the post. I didn't take it as a personal attack.

I don't feel you have that particular kind of intelligence.

I don’t have your kind of “intelligence”.

Thankfully.

 

[Bigga]

* I will because it’s true.

** Irrelevant to my point and further proof of your bizarre inability to recognise Trump as much worse than Biden, irrespective of Biden’s faults.

*LOL

** "much worse" is a subjective term used to make people believe that the statement is a truth. YOUR truth only in your eyes.

To a subset of working class and Black people, there's not that much difference. If you were a direct victim of Biden's policies (and there are THOUSANDS of incarcerated victims), I doubt they would think like yourself.

 

[Bigga]

I don’t have your kind of “intelligence”.

Thankfully.

Or any.

Duly noted.

 

[SebastianBlue]

So, @SebastianBlue, we'll go in order!

The Dore tweet is just you being pedantic about the person NOT the substance of the tweet. That's pretty poor show from someone who I thought might be 'objective', but you're bias has already shown through.

I shouldn't be surprised, merely... disappointed.

All Dore did was point out the ACTUAL wording of what was said, not the 'spin' you seem to think is fine.

Nowhere in the realms of logic have the words "...if confirmed..." been testament to certainty and truth.


"Are the US still in the Middle East? Why is this situation still happening?" I think is a pretty fair thing to ask. Your president has deemed the 'freedom fighters' of Afghanistan no longer a threat, so leave already.

They don't because the MIC see the region as valuable. Every now and then, you might see some medium raise the question about occupation and then it's back to being forgotten. Every year there's a different reason to stay. I find it more interesting the lack of personal opinion about staying in occupied territory.

Finally, as for your current POTUS 'crimes', previous occupants ARE relevant whether you like it or not. It's just this Fat Blimp happens to be uncool and, somewhat, racist. Objectively, what has he done to deserve locking up that former Pres' can walk away from?

Not paid taxes? That's the biggie. Talking to Russia is something all Pres do, whether you know it or not. Bombed places? Formerly hated and now beloved Pres Bush did that. That Cool Kid Pres Obama did that.

I'm objective, so what's the criteria for imprisonment that disqualifies former Pres over this one...?

There was no “bias” in my response, as I was pointing that you aren’t going to get anywhere in a reasonable discussion attempting to refute other people’s claims with sources of suspect (to put it mildly) expertise on the subject at hand.

I can quote the drunken gentlemen that stands outside the local coop wearing a paper hat and rails against Bush as the Satan if I think he may have a point, as well, but it doesn’t mean that argument is going to be taken seriously on here or anywhere else. Expertise and real insight is important, despite the anti-expertise, anti-intellectualism, idiot-populism movements’ attempts to convince so many otherwise that have contributed to the messes we are in now.

And as far as your Afghanistan comment, you said:

“I must say, I find it strange why the question of why the US has been in Afghanistan for almost 20 years is never questioned, especially after the supposed targets are pretty much non-existent now after being 'destroyed'.”

In my response I pointed that this simply isn’t true. Your response to mine has nothing to do with your original assertion or my response to you (especially as I said many of the reasons given make little sense, but a few do, which was my personal opinion... that you then said I didn’t give).

Also, Trump is certainly not “my president”, as I am not American. I live here, with many American and non-American friends, and thus have to live daily the chaos he has sown, hence my vigorous participation in the thread. I also see Trump as an enabler of Johnson and co, as well as other authoritarian and/or bumbling moron leaders, and as one of the biggest threats to world stability alive today, so I believe everyone should care about his attempting to transform the US in to a full-on fascist state.

Finally, you are just continuing with more whataboutism — this thread is about Donald Trump, and no matter how many times you incorrectly assert otherwise, previous actions of presidents has *no* logical bearing on the assessment of whether this current president is committing crimes and should be held accountable. As I said before, whether other leaders should have been or should be punished for their “crimes” is completely independent of whether Trump should be. It’s also interesting that you ignored that I still agreed that many Western leaders are deserving of punishment for various (in)actions they have taken.

Say it again to yourself: These... things... are... not... connected... for... an... assessment.

Trying to refocus the argument on past presidential action *is* whataboutism, especially in a thread *about* Donald Trump. And you know better.

And, as far as what crimes Trump has committed that are deserving of punishment (at least impeachment and removal), if you have haven’t been paying attention in general, or at least reading my and many others posts in this thread bringing those to the fore, then I can’t be bothered wasting time summarising them for you. He’s committed a few in the last few weeks alone.

It’s not my responsibility to continually repeat them over and over for your satisfaction, especially when you’ll just ignore them and respond with “Look, I hate the man, but none of that matters and he is great for the following one hundred reasons because I *actually* hate Biden”.

 

[SebastianBlue]

You should read. I stated clearly people LIKE MYSELF within the post. I didn't take it as a personal attack.

I don't feel you have that particular kind of intelligence.

Or any.

Duly noted.

Walking on the edge with these posts.

Just a fair warning.

 

[Bigga]

There was no “bias” in my response, as I was pointing that you aren’t going to get anywhere in a reasonable discussion attempting to refute other people’s claims with sources of suspect (to put it mildly) expertise on the subject at hand.

I can quote the drunken gentlemen that stands outside the local coop wearing a paper hat and rails against Bush as the Satan if I think he may have a point, as well, but it doesn’t mean that argument is going to be taken seriously on here or anywhere else. Expertise is important, despite the anti-expertise, anti-intellectualism movements attempts to convince so many otherwise that have contributed to the messes we are in now.

And as far as your Afghanistan comment, you said:

“I must say, I find it strange why the question of why the US has been in Afghanistan for almost 20 years is never questioned, especially after the supposed targets are pretty much non-existent now after being 'destroyed'.”

In my response I pointed that this simply isn’t true. Your response to mine has nothing to do with your original assertion or my response to you (especially as I said many of the reasons given make little sense, but a few do, which was my personal opinion... that you then said I didn’t give).

Also, Trump is certainly not “my president”, as I am not American. I live here, with many American and non-American friends, and thus have to live daily the chaos he has sown, hence my vigorous participation in the thread. I also see Trump as an enabler of Johnson and co, as well as other authoritarian and/or bumbling moron leaders, and as one of the biggest threats to world stability alive today, so I believe everyone should care about his attempting to transform the US in to a full-on fascist state.

Finally, you are just continuing with more whataboutism — this thread is about Donald Trump, and no matter how many times you incorrectly assert otherwise, previous actions of presidents has *no* logical bearing on the assessment of whether this current president is committing crimes and should be held accountable. As I said before, whether other leaders should have been or should be punished for the “crimes” is completely independent of whether Trump should be.

Say it again to yourself: They... are... not... connected... for... an... assessment. Trying to refocus the argument on past presidential action *is* whataboutism. And you know better.

And, as far as what crimes Trump has committed that are deserving of punishment (at least impeachment and removal), if you have haven’t been paying attention in general, or at least reading my and many others posts in this thread bringing those to the fore, then I can’t be bothered wasting time summarising them for you. He’s committed a few in the last few weeks alone.

It’s not my responsibility to continually repeat them over and over for your satisfaction, especially when you’ll just ignore them and respond with “Look, I hate the man, but none of that matters and he is great for the following one hundred reasons because I *actually* hate Biden”.

I'm going to boil it down to this with you; if your information is taken from those with "expertise" on a given agenda through a given medium, the problem is yours, not mine. If your sourcing isn't wide enough, the problem is yours, not mine. I listen to all sorts, not an echo chamber.

Dr Cornel West, Sen. Nina Turner, 'Killer' Mike, Van Jones, Bernie Sanders, George Stephanopoulos, the late Michael Brooks, Sam Seder just to name a few. A mixed bag of opinions that allow me to look deeper into issues and make my own mind up on things.

People wish #45 would do time and I wondered what he's done to warrant that view that other former Pres haven't been guilty of. Guess what? People colour outside the lines ALL the time!

if you're going to be so pedantic, you may as well go through the thread and delete every other person's post that has mentioned another person that's not #45, but you won't cos it's a dumb assertion. I'd wager a bet that you've never quite stuck to the subject matter at hand on every thread, either.

 

[Bigga]

Walking on the edge with these posts.

Just a fair warning.

I could give two shits that you're a mod.

There's nothing there that deserves being told I'm "walking on the edge" about nor offering a "fair warning" over.

This just you being authoritarian.

 

[idahoblues]

Walking on the edge with these posts.

Just a fair warning.

Orf with his head!

 

[SebastianBlue]

I'm going to boil it down to this with you; if your information is taken from those with "expertise" on a given agenda through a given medium, the problem is yours, not mine. If your sourcing isn't wide enough, the problem is yours, not mine. I listen to all sorts, not an echo chamber.

Dr Cornel West, Sen. Nina Turner, 'Killer' Mike, Van Jones, Bernie Sanders, George Stephanopoulos, the late Michael Brooks, Sam Seder just to name a few. A mixed bag of opinions that allow me to look deeper into issues and make my own mind up on things.

People wish #45 would do time and I wondered what he's done to warrant that view that other former Pres haven't been guilty of. Guess what? People colour outside the lines ALL the time!

if you're going to be so pedantic, you may as well go through the thread and delete every other person's post that has mentioned another person that's not #45, but you won't cos it's a dumb assertion. I'd wager a bet that you've never quite stuck to the subject matter at hand on every thread, either.

I never said everyone had to perfectly stick to the subject matter at hand all the time, I was specifically calling your post out as the whataboutery it is.

And you respond with more whataboutery about being called out for whataboutery.

 

[SebastianBlue]

I could give two shits that you're a mod.

There's nothing there that deserves being told I'm "walking on the edge" about nor offering a "fair warning" over.

This just you being authoritarian.

Those posts border on personal abuse, and you have a tendency to go further as those sorts of exchanges progress, thus the fair warning.

And I didn’t reference being a mod in my post — anyone could have pointed out you were walking dangerously close to violating CoC. I have done this many times before I became a mod.

Apparently merely pointing that out is authoritarian?

Good attempt at distraction, though!

 

[SebastianBlue]

Orf with his head!

The guillotine is being serviced today, unfortunately.

Besides, as an authoritarian, I much prefer the firing squad.

 

[pudge]

*couldn't give..

Blind spots like that are worth bans by themselves.

 

[Bigga]

I never said everyone had to perfectly stick to the subject matter at hand all the time, I was specifically calling your post out as the whataboutery it is.

And you respond with more whataboutery about being called out for whataboutery.

Oh, so moving the goalposts now?

Which is it? Can I cite other people whilst encompassing the subject matter or not?

...this thread is about Donald Trump

Just so there are no mixed messages. You're very similar to other posters who act like this to suit your needs.

 

[kaz7]

I am getting really worried now,he seems to have the postal services boxed off nicely,for the first time I really think he will win,i wouldn't expect the elderly or sick to risk voting in person when the covid numbers are so bad let alone in winter

 

[Bigga]

Those posts border on personal abuse, and you have a tendency to go further as those sorts of exchanges progress, thus the fair warning.

And I didn’t reference being a mod in my post — anyone could have pointed out you were walking dangerously close to violating CoC. I have done this many times before I became a mod.

Apparently merely pointing that out is authoritarian?

Good attempt at distraction, though!

So, when I say a person doesn't have the intellect to instigate a personal attack I'd feel affronted by... it becomes close to a 'personal attack' on that person??

Oh, that's hilarious...