George Floyd murder / Derek Chauvin guilty of murder

[Bigga]

I definitely don't but it's clear that the police must be funded well in order to fight crime and well we often forget that their purpose is to both prevent crime and protect victims of crime and they do it very well every single day. The vast majority (I.E. 99%) of police shootings and killings happen in pursuit of armed criminals, not black people.

How can we tell police officers to run into grave danger, but to forget their body armor and gun?

I can guarantee that even the most motivated defund protester will change their mind once it is their son, daughter, father or mother who is shot and killed due to gun violence. Look at the aftermath of any mass shooting and do you ever see a protest to defund the police to fund mental health facilities for would-be shooters?

In the UK we often see people on the left claiming that the police aren't funded well enough whilst laying blame for terrorism and crime etc on intelligence and governmental failures. But then in appeasement with protest movements like BLM they also want these institutions to be defunded so what can we do?

There is a defund the police movement in the UK but everyone ignores it because the armed element of the police saves countless lives from terrorists and armed criminals. Each year you can count the number of police killings and shootings on one hand whilst around 100 die in the US every single day by guns.

The problem in the US has nothing to do with white, black or police violence, these statistics become a huge problem because of the deaths involved and that is aggravated if not directly caused by guns and gun culture.

*sigh*

What do YOU think 'defunding the police' means?

Your thoughts, not regurgitating what you hear it means...?

 

[Ban-jani]

Show resolve to combat real and serious threats as real and serious threats, but not draw weapons for a domestic dispute?

I’m just going to respond to this bit as it does involve the UK and I’m uncomfortable lecturing someone about what’s happening in the place they live when I’ve never been.

The key difference in the UK is that when our police show up to an incident, pull someone over or stop someone, 99.99% of the time there isn’t a risk with a gun involved.

So they don’t need to and don’t use combat techniques or whatever you call it, in every day situations, because the risk isn’t there.

In America where you have 330 million guns in public hands, that massively changes things and suddenly the police are incredibly vulnerable.

You can count the people killed by the police in the UK every year on one hand, it’s a tiny number and they’re almost all not controversial, ie the person killed has tried to kill the police first or is trying to kill someone else.

The two countries are vastly different in terms of policing and the only argument the BLM group have over here is that the police pull more black people over in certain areas, than whites, which is easily explainable (there’s higher crime in these areas and it’s where a lot of black people live).

Since 2010 and austerity measures were imposed, a huge argument from the left has been the crime rates have soared because the Tories made cuts to their budget, I agree with them and it was a huge part of Jeremy Corbyn’s last two manifestos, to INCREASE police spending, as the socialist candidate.

The left were, quite rightly imo, vocal that the police were key workers, doing a difficult job and being let down by government cuts.

We have seen here people who supported it too, heavily in fact, do a complete u-turn and call for defunding now, because of an incident that happened 3000 miles away, not by our police and in another country.

There hasn’t been a controversial death over here to spark anything but our police are now the target of the same angst as is in America.

To me it just highlights that the majority of the “movement” is pretty mindless and isn’t pragmatic at all. It seems the calls on both sides of the Atlantic are excessive and radical and an opportunity has been missed because the people at the centre of the movement have such radical political views.

I don’t know what the opinions are in the US but over here people are turning away from BLM.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Defund the police” is a slogan. Once you realize that and that no serious politician would ever seriously consider it, you can start to understand the sentiment behind the slogan and address the actual concern people have with the police.

What do YOU think 'defunding the police' means?

It means to BLM exactly what it says, it has since been reconstructed later to give the impression that somehow they want a discussion about it, as clearly the realisation that the idea is plainly insane isn't helping too much. There are umpteen quotes by BLM founders that call for it, and the darling of the left over there that is Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, also confirms it means exactly what it says. ''It does not mean budget tricks or funny math.''
All over the cities quoted it is scrawled everywhere, rioters wave banners saying it everywhere, it's been screamed incessantly for months. It's a bit late trying to pretend that it really means tea and a chat about how local governance organises its finances.
You're right about no serious politician not ever considering it, but ironic that those that consider themselves as such do exactly that.

 

[SWP's back]

This really really fucking upset me.



The black guy is not complying and thus he’s executed on the road but tell me, after the first two or three shots. Is there any need for the fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh?

At that stage it was less about self-protection from the cop and everything about taking a life.

Fuck that country and fuck their police. And absolutely reduce the money spent on policing and spend it on things that could actually improve society.

 

[BobKowalski]

You are almost certainly aware of the violence and riots, sanctioned by city mayors. You will be aware that hundreds of police officers have been injured, some extremely seriously, some dead. You also will be aware, that in the cities discussed thousands of businesses have been destroyed, and the police are still experiencing violent thugs screaming defund the police and causing mayhem.
Many of these officers are now calling in sick, or taking early retirement, when officials are openly supporting them to be defunded/abolished, do you think that's unreasonable?
So with the above being daily events, is a nice cosy chat with a bunch of rioting anarchists about policing major cities, discussing actually reducing police numbers the way to stop them?

Some observations.

The portrayal of every protester as a braying thug intent on storming your house and raping your women is just right wing protest porn. It gets you hot and steamy and that’s about it.

With respect to the situation there are two choices. Discussion or suppression. The protests are aimed at changing the current policing methods and attitudes, suppression is simply doubling down and aimed at preserving the methods and attitudes that led to the protests in the first place.

Eventually you have to get to the discussion part of the cycle so you might as well get it over with.

 

[Ban-jani]

This really really fucking upset me.



The black guy is not complying and thus he’s executed on the road but tell me, after the first two or three shots. Is there any need for the fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh?

At that stage it was less about self-protection from the cop and everything about taking a life.

Fuck that country and fuck their police. And absolutely reduce the money spent on policing and spend it on things that could actually improve society.

What an appalling situation.

Why isn’t he complying? Considering how heated the whole situation has been in America, why isn’t he doing what they’ve asked and putting himself at major risk?

Is he reaching for something in his car?

If not, why the fuck do they think shooting him is a natural next step?

Why fire so many shots, thus making sure he’s got no chance of surviving it?

They could have not all had their guns pointed and more of them tried to apprehend him without shooting him.

Something has to change because this
cannot keep happening.

 

[BobKowalski]

This really really fucking upset me.



The black guy is not complying and thus he’s executed on the road but tell me, after the first two or three shots. Is there any need for the fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh?

At that stage it was less about self-protection from the cop and everything about taking a life.

Fuck that country and fuck their police. And absolutely reduce the money spent on policing and spend it on things that could actually improve society.

Noncompliance with police orders does not warrant seven shots in the back. That people will argue otherwise means our concept of policing is seriously fucked.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

What an appalling situation.

Why isn’t he complying? Considering how heated the whole situation has been in America, why isn’t he doing what they’ve asked and putting himself at major risk?

Is he reaching for something in his car?

If not, why the fuck do they think shooting him is a natural next step?

Why fire so many shots, thus making sure he’s got no chance of surviving it?

They could have not all had their guns pointed and more of them tried to apprehend him without shooting him.

Something has to change because this
cannot keep happening.

The whole thing is a shitshow. I wonder if the logic is that if they keep their guns holstered and try to arrest him, there's a risk that he could try and take their gun. Although most other police forces are armed and don't seem to have the same problem. As for the number of shots, I know that if genuinely life threatening situations, they are taught to shoot to kill for a couple of reasons. Firstly, a wounded person can still shoot back, and secondly, they have to aim for the biggest target.

But yeah, yet again, we seem to have what looks like a traffic stop turning deadly. When they're called to an armed robbery and someone gets shot, people are a bit more forgiving, but so many of these instances seem to revolve around traffic stops, and let's be honest, almost by definition, that means that someone has lost their life over a pretty minor crime.

 

[stonerblue]

This really really fucking upset me.



The black guy is not complying and thus he’s executed on the road but tell me, after the first two or three shots. Is there any need for the fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh?

At that stage it was less about self-protection from the cop and everything about taking a life.

Fuck that country and fuck their police. And absolutely reduce the money spent on policing and spend it on things that could actually improve society.

I'm sure there'll be someone on soon enough to try and justify this shooting.

 

[Ban-jani]

A bloke has just been shot to death and people are already creating straw men to attack, grow up for fuck sake.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

A bloke has just been shot to death and people are already creating straw men to attack, grow up for fuck sake.

I think he's still alive. If it's the same man as on the BBC News story.

Don't think it was a traffic stop, actually.

According to his lawyer, he was trying to intervene in a fight between two women, and he had his three kids in the car when he was shot.

Story

 

[inbetween]

We have far too many illegal guns in the hands of (by definition) irresponsible gun owners. It is rare to have a violent gun death caused by a law-abiding citizen.

I know you may disagree and I am not from the US but the protection of legal 'law-abiding' gun ownership is fuelling the fire because it's existence is what allows for illegal gun ownership.

In the UK there is no illegal gun ownership because guns generally are impossible to obtain. You need a police permit just to get a licence and that requires you to prove you have a good reason to own one, wanting a gun for defence or protection is not good enough.

The Police turn up tooled up in the US because they have no choice, they have to believe they are walking into a dangerous situation and I don't blame them. The police here often turn up with nothing more than a notebook, I'd think twice about that in the US where it's highly likely that a suspect is armed.

The link below shows why the defund movement can never really get anywhere. Whilst I understand the reason for the protest, the image of heavily armed protesters is terrifying really and this is again a situation escalated by the presence of guns.

Black armed protesters march in Kentucky demanding justice for Breonna Taylor

A group of heavily armed Black protesters marched through Louisville, Kentucky on Saturday demanding justice for Breonna Taylor, a Black woman killed in March by police officers who burst into her apartment.

www.reuters.com

 

[Ban-jani]

I think he's still alive. If it's the same man as on the BBC News story.

Hopefully that is the case!

Surprising considering the video.

 

[Ban-jani]

I know you may disagree and I am not from the US but the protection of legal 'law-abiding' gun ownership is fuelling the fire because it's existence is what allows for illegal gun ownership.

In the UK there is no illegal gun ownership because guns generally are impossible to obtain. You need a police permit just to get a licence and that requires you to prove you have a good reason to own one, wanting a gun for defence or protection is not good enough.

The Police turn up tooled up in the US because they have no choice, they have to believe they are walking into a dangerous situation and I don't blame them. The police here often turn up with nothing more than a notebook, I'd think twice about that in the US where it's highly likely that a suspect is armed.

The link below shows why the defund movement can never really get anywhere. Whilst I understand the reason for the protest, the image of heavily armed protesters is terrifying really and this is again a situation escalated by the presence of guns.

Black armed protesters march in Kentucky demanding justice for Breonna Taylor

A group of heavily armed Black protesters marched through Louisville, Kentucky on Saturday demanding justice for Breonna Taylor, a Black woman killed in March by police officers who burst into her apartment.

www.reuters.com

Imagine what Dr King would have said to that militia.

 

[blueinsa]

Noncompliance with police orders does not warrant seven shots in the back. That people will argue otherwise means our concept of policing is seriously fucked.

Correct it absolutely does not and these officers should be dealt with and charged accordingly.

Speechless at the daily fucking goings on in America.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Imagine what Dr King would have said to that militia.

Imagine what Malcolm X would have said.

 

[Bigga]

It means to BLM exactly what it says, it has since been reconstructed later to give the impression that somehow they want a discussion about it, as clearly the realisation that the idea is plainly insane isn't helping too much. There are umpteen quotes by BLM founders that call for it, and the darling of the left over there that is Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, also confirms it means exactly what it says. ''It does not mean budget tricks or funny math.''
All over the cities quoted it is scrawled everywhere, rioters wave banners saying it everywhere, it's been screamed incessantly for months. It's a bit late trying to pretend that it really means tea and a chat about how local governance organises its finances.
You're right about no serious politician not ever considering it, but ironic that those that consider themselves as such do exactly that.

Since you want to take the question, answer the question as it was designed.

 

[Bigga]

This really really fucking upset me.



The black guy is not complying and thus he’s executed on the road but tell me, after the first two or three shots. Is there any need for the fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh?

At that stage it was less about self-protection from the cop and everything about taking a life.

Fuck that country and fuck their police. And absolutely reduce the money spent on policing and spend it on things that could actually improve society.

I feel like my blood ran cold!

You have the tools on the forum that says non-compliance means this can happen!

Honestly fuck the police!

 

[Bigga]

I know you may disagree and I am not from the US but the protection of legal 'law-abiding' gun ownership is fuelling the fire because it's existence is what allows for illegal gun ownership.

In the UK there is no illegal gun ownership because guns generally are impossible to obtain. You need a police permit just to get a licence and that requires you to prove you have a good reason to own one, wanting a gun for defence or protection is not good enough.

The Police turn up tooled up in the US because they have no choice, they have to believe they are walking into a dangerous situation and I don't blame them. The police here often turn up with nothing more than a notebook, I'd think twice about that in the US where it's highly likely that a suspect is armed.

The link below shows why the defund movement can never really get anywhere. Whilst I understand the reason for the protest, the image of heavily armed protesters is terrifying really and this is again a situation escalated by the presence of guns.

Black armed protesters march in Kentucky demanding justice for Breonna Taylor

A group of heavily armed Black protesters marched through Louisville, Kentucky on Saturday demanding justice for Breonna Taylor, a Black woman killed in March by police officers who burst into her apartment.

www.reuters.com

Imagine what Dr King would have said to that militia.

Answer me this; why is it when White men can march as a group or individuals it's called a 'right', but when Black people do it, it called 'problems'?

It really is fooking annoying why one is 'accepted/ expected' and one not.

 

[blueinsa]

You have the tools on the forum that says non-compliance means this can happen!

Who exactly HAS said that?