George Floyd murder / Derek Chauvin guilty of murder

kaz7 said:
They had every opportunity to tasar him rather than shoot him,there were three small children in the car,black men cant win,comply you get murdered in the street,walk away you get murdered in the street
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Karen,

There are multiple problems with what you have said, but I think you already know that all your have done us spout platitudes.

If you want to seriously discuss this issue, no problem. This isn’t that.

One witness, who did not want his name used but said he had an unobstructed view of the events leading to the shooting, said Blake pushed past police and that’s when they struck him with Tasers.

“He didn’t even flinch,” the witness said. “He just kept walking.”

Blake tried to climb into his car. That’s when a police officer grabbed him, the witness said.

“They start to wrestle,” the witness said.

“The officer is punching on him. Two officers come to assist. They get him down on the curb behind his vehicle. Somehow he manages to get up. They said he has a knife. All of the officers pull out their guns. ...

(One of the officers) tells him, ‘Get out of the car!’ and he starts shooting.”
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So, non-compliance, Taser, no effect, continued non-compliance, both physically and verbally, fighting with officers, get him on the ground, he gets up, continued non-compliance, they call out that he has a deadly weapon, cops draw weapons, continued non-compliance, walks around the front of the vehicle, continued non-compliance, opens the car door, continued non-compliance, bends down to reach into drivers side of car while cop tries to pull him out by his shirt, cop shoots him to neutralize the continued threat created by repeated non-compliance.

I’ll give you ONE GUESS how this could have ended without anyone being shot....

...begins with “C” ends in “ompliance at any time before he went back to his car and reached into the vehicle with hands completely out of view of the police, after fighting, being tased, and the call of a knife.

At which point do you think it might have been reasonable for HIM to de-escalate?

Let’s find out what REALLY happened, not just the no audio video clip.

Like George Floyd, who was passing a bad check, got caught, was handcuffed, but refused to get in the Police SUV because he didn’t want to go back to prison. So, he fought with FOUR police offers while handcuffed, which is how he ended up on the ground by the side of the SUV.

ALL OF THAT was his fault. ALL OF IT!

From there, the cop killed him, and in my opinion should be charged with either second or third degree murder.

But, the entire incident should never have got to the point of Floyd being on the ground in the first place. HE DID THAT. Convicted felon committing another crime, which is now lost in the sound and fury.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Karen,

There are multiple problems with what you have said, but I think you already know that all your have done us spout platitudes.

If you want to seriously discuss this issue, no problem. This isn’t that.



So, non-compliance, Taser, no effect, continued non-compliance, both physically and verbally, fighting with officers, get him on the ground, he gets up, continued non-compliance, they call out that he has a deadly weapon, cops draw weapons, continued non-compliance, walks around the front of the vehicle, continued non-compliance, opens the car door, continued non-compliance, bends down to reach into drivers side of car while cop tries to pull him out by his shirt, cop shoots him to neutralize the continued threat created by repeated non-compliance.

I’ll give you ONE GUESS how this could have ended without anyone being shot....

...begins with “C” ends in “ompliance at any time before he went back to his car and reached into the vehicle with hands completely out of view of the police, after fighting, being tased, and the call of a knife.

At which point do you think it might have been reasonable for HIM to de-escalate?

Let’s find out what REALLY happened, not just the no audio video clip.

Like George Floyd, who was passing a bad check, got caught, was handcuffed, but refused to get in the Police SUV because he didn’t want to go back to prison. So, he fought with FOUR police offers while handcuffed, which is how he ended up on the ground by the side of the SUV.

ALL OF THAT was his fault. ALL OF IT!

From there, the cop killed him, and in my opinion should be charged with either second or third degree murder.

But, the entire incident should never have got to the point of Floyd being on the ground in the first place. HE DID THAT. Convicted felon committing another crime, which is now lost in the sound and fury.
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Fair enough, just need an amendment to your Constitution that formally recognised non-compliance as a death penalty offence and then your arguments would be correct.
 
I'm white British and my wife is black American. Our little boy is 3 months old. It breaks my heart that we're going to have conversations with him in the future about why he's going to be treated differently to me and why he'll have to 'behave' differently around certain people, police especially.

Our nephew is a big lad. Over six feet. Could look intimidating to some. He is, however, the sweetest kid you could ever meet. Unfortunately, he's also bi-polar and suffers from anxiety. When he started driving, we were terrified about how he'd cope in a traffic stop situation. My wife coached him through a script to use if stopped. Lots of 'Yes, Sir', 'Of course, Sir'. We also made sure he knows to keep his licence and registration on display in the centre console, so there can be no chance of a cop thinking he's reaching for something.

It's a fucking disgrace that we had to take these measures in the first place, simply to reduce the chances of him being shot by a police officer.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
What I really don't understand is why it bothers you so much. Of all the issues to focus on, why this one? Why does a fringe group whose ideas aren't popular across a wide variety of average Americans (of which you aren't one) raise so much ire and indignation? What about BLM's rhetoric frightens and angers you so?
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What I don't understand is why you blithely dismiss mass assaults, many murders, hundreds of millions worth of damage, and federal buildings attacks as the actions of some fringe group. We've had similar, on a far reduced scale but have largely got to grips with it, you appear to not be bothered about it, I would guess the parents of murdered children, the families of those killed, the businesses destroyed are probably more than a little concerned.
Oh, and if AOC and her merry bunch of 'Fringe Group' nutcases
get their way, the police will be defunded, as she clearly said.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
What I don't understand is why you blithely dismiss mass assaults, many murders, hundreds of millions worth of damage, and federal buildings attacks as the actions of some fringe group. We've had similar, on a far reduced scale but have largely got to grips with it, you appear to not be bothered about it, I would guess the parents of murdered children, the families of those killed, the businesses destroyed are probably more than a little concerned.
Oh, and if AOC and her merry bunch of 'Fringe Group' nutcases
get their way, the police will be defunded, as she clearly said.
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I don't dismiss them, but I'm more than a little concerned about the 181,000 (and counting) dead people, the parents of children who died, the families of those who died, and the businesses destroyed right now.

BLM may be directly or indirectly responsible for some urban devastation.

But I KNOW what's directly responsible for the US handling of COVID-19.

The police might be defunded (hint: they won't be). The pandemic response team WAS defunded.
 
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ChicagoBlue said:
Karen,

There are multiple problems with what you have said, but I think you already know that all your have done us spout platitudes.

If you want to seriously discuss this issue, no problem. This isn’t that.



So, non-compliance, Taser, no effect, continued non-compliance, both physically and verbally, fighting with officers, get him on the ground, he gets up, continued non-compliance, they call out that he has a deadly weapon, cops draw weapons, continued non-compliance, walks around the front of the vehicle, continued non-compliance, opens the car door, continued non-compliance, bends down to reach into drivers side of car while cop tries to pull him out by his shirt, cop shoots him to neutralize the continued threat created by repeated non-compliance.

I’ll give you ONE GUESS how this could have ended without anyone being shot....

...begins with “C” ends in “ompliance at any time before he went back to his car and reached into the vehicle with hands completely out of view of the police, after fighting, being tased, and the call of a knife.

At which point do you think it might have been reasonable for HIM to de-escalate?

Let’s find out what REALLY happened, not just the no audio video clip.

Like George Floyd, who was passing a bad check, got caught, was handcuffed, but refused to get in the Police SUV because he didn’t want to go back to prison. So, he fought with FOUR police offers while handcuffed, which is how he ended up on the ground by the side of the SUV.

ALL OF THAT was his fault. ALL OF IT!

From there, the cop killed him, and in my opinion should be charged with either second or third degree murder.

But, the entire incident should never have got to the point of Floyd being on the ground in the first place. HE DID THAT. Convicted felon committing another crime, which is now lost in the sound and fury.
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While I see your point, I wonder if there's any history of black people being shot, tasered, beaten, abused or otherwise harmed by white police in America whether they were "complying" or not.

Just a guess but maybe that enters the consciousness of those in such circumstances somehow.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
I don't dismiss them, but I'm more than a little concerned about the 181,000 (and counting) dead people, the parents of children who died, the families of those who died, and the businesses destroyed right now.

BLM may be directly or indirectly responsible for some urban devastation.

But I KNOW what's directly responsible for the US handling of COVID-19.

The police might be defunded (hint: they won't be). The pandemic response team WAS defunded.
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Nice deflection, ah well, you better hope those politicians that want the police defunded are ousted then,as defunding the police is mad isn't it?
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Nice deflection, ah well, you better hope those politicians that want the police defunded are ousted then,as defunding the police is mad isn't it?
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There's aren't enough of them, which is obvious to everyone paying any attention. There's no popular support for this. You've been told several times. You ignore this. Which is why you're Don Quixote redux.

Of course it's mad, and since it is, why are you so freaked out?
 
These incidents seem to have a common theme running through them.

1) incompetent cops who are unable to find a solution to a problem that doesn’t involve shooting someone. Why not CS spray, taser, pile on before he got to his car ffs?!...
2) people who refuse to follow clear and simple instructions or lead a life that doesn’t invoke police contact. If he had followed his instructions he’d be alive.

if I got pulled by the cops in America I would not move a fucking muscle, they would deal with me and I’d go on my way. It’s not rocket science. Both parties here are to blame for the outcome.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
There's aren't enough of them, which is obvious to everyone paying any attention. There's no popular support for this. You've been told several times. You ignore this. Which is why you're Don Quixote redux.

Of course it's mad, and since it is, why are you so freaked out?
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Lol, I'm not freaked out, if you hadn't noticed this is a BLM thread, and I'm merely commenting on it, you don't like what you're hearing and now seek to trivialise it. Which bothers me not, some of the stuff on here is wondrous to behold, and after a few months of realities that are now becoming evident, it's all of a sudden not important.
You gotta laugh really, but I think we've completed this little exercise, stay safe.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Lol, I'm not freaked out, if you hadn't noticed this is a BLM thread, and I'm merely commenting on it, you don't like what you're hearing and now seek to trivialise it. Which bothers me not, some of the stuff on here is wondrous to behold, and after a few months of realities that are now becoming evident, it's all of a sudden not important.
You gotta laugh really, but I think we've completed this little exercise, stay safe.
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Believe me -- I'm not laughing.
 
SWP's back said:
And? Do you even know what it means?

Do you think the US police should be purchasing hundreds of millions in surplus military grade vehicles and weaponry?

Do you not think that money could be better spent?
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It means, to AOC, exactly what it says, as has been referenced earlier.
If you want a discussion on American public spending intentions, fine, let's have one.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
It means, to AOC, exactly what it says, as has been referenced earlier.
If you want a discussion on American public spending intentions, fine, let's have one.
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Some areas of the states have half of their city budgets spent on the police, so isn’t ‘defunding the police‘ a means of spending huge amounts of cash in a different way?
For example, should the system ensure that there are good quality services in the community so that somebody in mental health crisis gets the help they need, or an addict can get treatment, rather than getting arrested by the police and taken to a cell?

These are really important questions to ask when you think that, In the industrialised world, America has by far the biggest prison population, it has by far the most heavily resourced police forces, and has by far the largest crime rates and the lowest levels of public safety.
By any definition, whatever it’s got now, it’s not working....
 
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The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
Some areas of the states have half of their city budgets spent on the police, so isn’t ‘defunding the police‘ a means spending huge amounts of cash in a different way?
For example, should the system ensure that there are good quality services in the community so that somebody in mental health crisis gets the help they need, or an addict can get treatment, rather than getting arrested by the police and taken to a cell?

These are really important questions to ask when you think that, In the industrialised world, America has by far the biggest prison population, it has by far the most heavily resourced police forces, and has by far the largest crime rates and the lowest levels of public safety.
By any definition, whatever it’s got now, it’s not working....
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America also has a massive crime problem, which needs appropriate law enforcement to counter it. I'm not totally disagreeing with you, there may be areas where too much is allocated, and we don't live there to recommend one way or another, but a big police presence has always existed there.
 
Kinkladze 1 said:
These incidents seem to have a common theme running through them.

1) incompetent cops who are unable to find a solution to a problem that doesn’t involve shooting someone. Why not CS spray, taser, pile on before he got to his car ffs?!...
2) people who refuse to follow clear and simple instructions or lead a life that doesn’t invoke police contact. If he had followed his instructions he’d be alive.

if I got pulled by the cops in America I would not move a fucking muscle, they would deal with me and I’d go on my way. It’s not rocket science. Both parties here are to blame for the outcome.
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Bit of a bugger for those with mild Parkinson’s.

’Show me your ID. You are walking erratically!’
’Yes, Officer. I have-
’BLAM! See that? The fucker twitched!’

You are accepting that involuntary movement, nervousness, brain freeze, panic whatever, means you are equally responsible for getting shot by the police.

That is insane.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
America also has a massive crime problem, which needs appropriate law enforcement to counter it. I'm not totally disagreeing with you, there may be areas where too much is allocated, and we don't live there to recommend one way or another, but a big police presence has always existed there.
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You state two things that you hold to be true. (1) America also has a massive crime problem and (2) A big police presence has always existed there.

Does not the existence of truth (1) mean that truth (2) is clearly not the whole answer and that a different approach might be the solution?
 
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