Donald Trump

[Ban-jani]

Well, seeing as we are seemingly not likely to agree on the meaning of my post (which was my belief that the current state of our culture is not substantially better than America in terms of susceptibility to neofascist ideology, even if we don’t have the same sorts of violence based on differing beliefs on guns), and for the sake of not derailing the thread on a side comment, what say we acknowledge you think I was being hyperbolic and move on?

The UK isn’t remotely anywhere near Conservatism, never mind neofacism, it’s liberal and has been since the 90’s.

But yeah back to Trump.

 

[blueinsa]

I too am very uncomfortable with the tag neofascist as it seems anything to the right of Mao these days is a fascist. Being a conservative isn't a crime, nor is holding views and opinions on the right of the political spectrum.

Majority of people are down the middle with one foot on the left and the other on the right and the extremes calling them names does nothing but turn them off to their views imo.

 

[SebastianBlue]

The UK isn’t remotely anywhere near Conservatism, never mind neofacism, it’s liberal and has been since the 90’s.

But yeah back to Trump.

Cheers.

I too am very uncomfortable with the tag neofascist as it seems anything to the left of Mao these days is labeled as fascist. Being a conservative isn't a crime, nor is holding views and opinions on the right of the political spectrum.

Majority of people are down the middle with one foot on the left and the other on the right and the extremes calling them names does nothing but turn them off to their views imo.

I didn’t call anyone in particular neofascist, mate, only meant to reference susceptibility to the ideology and why things may look a bit different for us even if it is broadly adopted.

But, again, let’s move on, as my intention was to try to bring a different, broader perspective to the debate about the trends in America in the context of global trends, not to derail the thread with discussions about the current state of the UK.

I see now that was a poor decision.

 

[blueinsa]

Cheers.

I didn’t call anyone in particular neofascist, mate, only meant to reference susceptibility to the ideology and why things may look a bit different for us even if it is broadly adopted.

But, again, let’s move on, as my intention was to try to bring a different, broader perspective to the debate about the trends in America in the context of global trends, not to derail the thread with discussions about the current state of the UK.

I see now that was a poor decision.

It wasn't aimed at you and re America, i can see why you would hold the view you do but my concern is UK politics is now seen in the same way American is, Trump is a thundercunt then so too is anyone on the right here or rather anyone who doesn't agree entirely with my left wing views on life etc etc.

Majority of Americans will be right minded folk who just want to live their lives, much like over here but we get treated to a shit show by the extremes and are dragged into the ensuing chaos.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

I’ve read some exaggerated waffle on here but this takes the lot.

The UK is miles away from America in political division and rioting. People are dying every single day there from police- civilian stand offs, a district of an entire city was taken over by anarchists and several died.

What’s happening here on that scale? And if I hear one my time that liberal Boris is anything like Trump I don’t know what I’ll do.

Hardly anyone in the UK likes Trump but for a few radicals on the right and this forum has what, 1/2 posters who like him and even then they just think he’s better than Clinton?

He’s the least popular politician by a mile, on this forum, since I’ve been posting on here since 2009.

I cant stand Trump but George Fucking Osborne still edges him in the wanker politician stakes for me

 

[Ban-jani]

I cant stand Trump but George Fucking Osborne still edges him in the wanker politician stakes for me

You’re welcome to that decision.

I don’t agree.

 

[west didsblue]

I cant stand Trump but George Fucking Osborne still edges him in the wanker politician stakes for me

Don’t be silly. No one’s anywhere near Trump in wankerness.

 

[mat]

I cant stand Trump but George Fucking Osborne still edges him in the wanker politician stakes for me

On the list of most punchable face I agree.

 

[mat]

Back on Topic.


The optics for Trump's acceptance speech. I hear he's going to be standing at the lecturn with giant USA flags flying behind him and a hand picked audience which will cheer and holler at every sentence. Cletus and his wife/sister have been invited to feed him the "Oh no I couldn't say that. The fake news media will...." lines

It will finish with a country singer singing Woodie Guthrie's This land is our land and the irony will not be noticed by him whilst CNN/MSNBC facepalm and Hannity masturbates live on air.

 

[SebastianBlue]

It wasn't aimed at you and re America, i can see why you would hold the view you do but my concern is UK politics is now seen in the same way American is, Trump is a thundercunt then so too is anyone on the right here or rather anyone who doesn't agree entirely with my left wing views on life etc etc.

Majority of Americans will be right minded folk who just want to live their lives, much like over here but we get treated to a shit show by the extremes and are dragged into the ensuing chaos.

Fair enough.

I actually agree the majority of Americans are decent, right-minded folk; it’s just the ones that are indifferent to or accepting of the sort of neofascist ideology we’re discussing are often much more aggressive with their beliefs and behaviours than those that oppose it (it’s a byproduct of the belief system). That is usually the case with populist, ultranationalist authoritarianism and especially so when they believe they are in “power” (in this case with their “leader” being president). And because they tend to be not-so-apprehensive about acting on their extreme beliefs, relative minorities of people can have an outsized impact on the greater society and political balance. This means allowing such ideology to take hold in even a relatively small proportion of a population can have dire consequences.

It’s the trends I see currently that are concerning.

That’s my worry in America, at home (both UK and Spain), and in several other places in the world that have been part of my life over the years. I have spent time in places that were either recently or currently ruled by authoritarian regimes and can say from first hand experience it really can take hold quickly and be devastating to communities, especially those seen as not being loyal to those in power (even if they are merely attempting to remain relatively neutral). And the devastation lasts long after those regimes have fallen.

It’s one of the reasons I am so invested in what is happening here in America — it can’t be allowed to take hold in such a large, (even indirectly) influential nation.

 

[blueinsa]

Fair enough.

I actually agree the majority of Americans are decent, right-minded folk; it’s just the ones that are indifferent to or accepting of the sort of neofascist ideology we’re discussing are often much more aggressive with their beliefs and behaviours than those that oppose it (it’s a byproduct of the belief system). That is usually the case with populist, ultranationalist authoritarianism and especially so when they believe they are in “power” (in this case with their “leader” being president). And because they tend to be not-so-apprehensive about acting on their extreme beliefs, relative minorities of people can have an outsized impact on the greater society and political balance. This means allowsuch ideology to take hold in even a relatively small proportion of a population can have dire consequences.

It’s the trends I see currently that are concerning.

That’s my worry in America, at home (both UK and Spain), and in several other places in the world that have been part of my life over the years. I have spent time in places that were either recently or currently ruled by authoritarian regimes and can say from first hand experience it really can take hold quickly and be devastating to communities, especially those seen as not being loyal to those in power (even if they are merely attempting to remain relatively neutral). And the devastation lasts long after those regimes have fallen.

And it’s one of the reasons I am so invested in what is happening here in America — it can’t be allowed to take hold in such a large, (even indirectly) influential nation.

Trump supporters and i will be kind here are well...........strange at best and at worst, morally and emotionally bankrupt.

I understand a lifetime of being republican means you vote republican but Trump? Really?

 

[bluethrunthru]

Back on Topic.


The optics for Trump's acceptance speech. I hear he's going to be standing at the lecturn with giant USA flags flying behind him and a hand picked audience which will cheer and holler at every sentence. Cletus and his wife/sister have been invited to feed him the "Oh no I couldn't say that. The fake news media will...." lines

It will finish with a country singer singing Woodie Guthrie's This land is our land and the irony will not be noticed by him whilst CNN/MSNBC facepalm and Hannity masturbates live on air.

No Bible? I thought he was the worlds biggest fan of the Bible? A lot of Americans are too - Mike Pence has nearly coloured in all of his copy - I am beginning to think Mr Trump may have been telling porkies.

p.s. Pope Benedict will happily have a Bible -off with Trump any where any time to prove who is the Bible's biggest fan

 

[SebastianBlue]

Trump supporters and i will be kind here are well...........strange at best and at worst, morally and emotionally bankrupt.

I understand a lifetime of being republican means you vote republican but Trump? Really?

So many factors, mate, but as many others have said in this thread, it ultimately comes down to that moral and intellectual bankruptcy at this point. It may have been different at the beginning, but we have come to a moment where if you are still supporting Trump, after everything he has said and done, you are very likely past being reasoned with or having your perspective changed via good faith discussion.

And that’s a similar pattern to other fascist movements in the annals of history.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

You’re welcome to that decision.

I don’t agree.

For things that have directly affected us as Britons I mean

 

[SebastianBlue]

No Bible? I thought he was the worlds biggest fan of the Bible? A lot of Americans are too - Mike Pence has nearly coloured in all of his copy - I am beginning to think Mr Trump may have been telling porkies.

p.s. Pope Benedict will happily have a Bible -off with Trump any where any time to prove who is the Bible's biggest fan

I have heard that he read this one cover-to-cover thrice whilst standing outside waiting for the photographer to show. You can tell how much it affected him in the photo; either that, or he was trying not to **** himself with the remnants of the eight Big Macs he had lunch before the exceptionally long walk through the dissipating tear gas and mercenary guard.

Strange it won’t feature tonight.*

* The bible, not the load of Big Macs.

 

[bluethrunthru]

I have heard that he read this one cover-to-cover thrice whilst standing outside waiting for the photographer to show. You can tell how much it affected him in the photo; either that, or he was trying not to **** himself with the remnants of the eight Big Macs he had lunch before the exceptionally long walk through the dissipating tear gas and mercenary guard.

Strange it won’t feature tonight.*

* The bible, not the load of Big Macs.

cover to cover thrice? I think you will find that was Harry Potter #bibleousshittymyself

 

[Ban-jani]

For things that have directly affected us as Britons I mean

Well it’s understandable to dislike a politician who’s actually led in your country over another.

 

[mat]

I have heard that he read this one cover-to-cover thrice whilst standing outside waiting for the photographer to show. You can tell how much it affected him in the photo; either that, or he was trying not to **** himself with the remnants of the eight Big Macs he had lunch before the exceptionally long walk through the dissipating tear gas and mercenary guard.

Strange it won’t feature tonight.*

* The bible, not the load of Big Macs.

"You know...Some good people have said my book The Art of The Deal is the Bible on how to run a business. Some have even even said I'm a god. Who am I to argue...A GOD! The fake News media portray as me the Devil. The real Devil is creepy Joe Biden. Look at where his hands are when he's touching a kid. I'm not saying he is.....Just some people have pointed that fact out to me and maybe the media should investigate...?"

 

[Silva_Spell]

Think you’ve taken my post to the absolute extreme, mate, especially given the caveats I included... perhaps for argument’s sake?

Damn caveats... ;)

 

[west didsblue]

"You know...Some good people have said my book The Art of The Deal is the Bible on how to run a business. Some have even even said I'm a god. Who am I to argue...A GOD! The fake News media portray as me the Devil. The real Devil is creepy Joe Biden. Look at where his hands are when he's touching a kid. I'm not saying he is.....Just some people have pointed that fact out to me and maybe the media should investigate...?"

Is that an actual quote?
It really wouldn’t surprise me if it was.