George Floyd murder / Derek Chauvin guilty of murder

inbetween said:
People tend to question their nationality amongst other things when they don't get their own way. It's the frustration that is building up in people and it's spread across all spectrums where eventually no-one is innocent.

On the other side people are saying "I don't recognise my country anymore", "this is a white country", it's an identity and cultural crisis. You potentially have two types of people in America, people who remember the days when black people sat on different sections of the bus, and then people who don't just find that disgusting but feel violent protest is required to argue against anyone who agrees with it.

This is why much of the western world is on the brink of civil war, the change has been so quick and people have struggled to adapt. I agree with the changes, it is disgraceful to even consider to have black people sat in different sections on a bus but there will be older generations who honestly disagree. Then there are sections in society who aren't bothered and will argue against because it's how they were brought up and they feel the 80's or 90's was how society should be because that's how it was for them.

Here in the UK, the massive increase in migration over the last 20 years has seen some feel like we are being invaded. It has challenged peoples views, people who for 30-40 years of their lives barely saw a black person, or a Muslim. Now those people are seeing many on their streets and they feel it's an assault on their identity and their country.

I disagree with any racist view but there is a reason why all of this is happening and it's because traditional human behaviour is to oppose change and view 'unknown' people with suspect. There's no excuse for it but it's ingrained deeply in human nature and it isn't something you can just argue against or type against on Twitter.
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Whilst I don't think anyone would disagree that there's is a cultural crisis in the West, 4 paragraphs on white identity, racism and immigration is an odd reaction to that tweet.
And that bold bit is absolutely ridiculous. Clearly you don't mean to say the US has only those 2 types (I would hope anyway) but the idea that there are people arguing for black people to be at the back of the bus and that the rioters are rioting in reaction to such an argument is fantasyland stuff

These far left types have always agreed with the "death to america" mantra, they just feel emboldened to chant it now because no-one in authority is standing up to them. They feel they rule the streets - and they kinda do
 
What does anyone (the gun loving members of BM, mainly) think about the Rittenhouse lawyer defence of his being part of "a well regulated militia" making his gun ownership legal?

While Rittenhouse’s attorneys will likely combat the various homicide charges by claiming self-defense, NBC News reported on Monday that Rittenhouse’s attorneys are planning to fight the possession charge by arguing that Rittenhouse was acting as part of a “well-regulated militia” under the Second Amendment.
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Cited from:
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profil...eported-well-regulated-militia-legal-defense/
 
Silva_Spell said:
Whilst I don't think anyone would disagree that there's is a cultural crisis in the West, 4 paragraphs on white identity, racism and immigration is an odd reaction to that tweet.
And that bold bit is absolutely ridiculous. Clearly you don't mean to say the US has only those 2 types (I would hope anyway) but the idea that there are people arguing for black people to be at the back of the bus and that the rioters are rioting in reaction to such an argument is fantasyland stuff

These far left types have always agreed with the "death to america" mantra, they just feel emboldened to chant it now because no-one in authority is standing up to them. They feel they rule the streets - and they kinda do
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Of course there aren't just those two types but these are the extremes that are involved. 99% of people who aren't involved in this will take a view that is somewhere in the middle, or they won't care. That doesn't mean that there isn't anything to see here.

The death to america 'mantra' is just a slogan, they are calling for an end to the continuous killings that are taking place by saying this is not the America we wish to live in, I don't see a problem with that. I obviously don't agree with the looting or violence which indeed needs sorting out.

Wanting the protests to stop by 'standing up to them' instead of engaging with the issue is just ridiculous though. It doesn't solve the issue and it suppresses the protests but it still just essentially agrees that killings and shootings are fine to continue.

Trump won't tackle any aspect of this because his base agrees that shouting death to america is far worse than the shooting of another black man.
 
SWP's back said:
Remember the “lone wolf” Muslim fella that stabbed two people to death in a market and then was chased by several on to London Bridge (one of them holding a narwhal tusk), it he’d managed to stab one of those people chasing him to death as well, would you have suggested that he shouldn’t be charged with the third murder as it was then self-defence (in the hypothetical that armed police hadn’t shot him).
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Obviously not. Apart from the fact the Muslim fella had committed a double murder beforehand, one important difference is that the Muslim fella didn't even retreat, he turned around on the bridge of his own free will and squared up when he had no reason to do so. By contrast Rittenhouse was tripped over whilst retreating and was immediately attacked by a large crowd

I left open the possibility that Rittenhouse's claim of self-defence may not hold depending upon what had gone on beforehand and if he had done what the Muslim fella had done it wouldn't have*

*Different states can have their legal quirks but based on my understanding of Wisconsin law you can still claim self-defense whilst committing a crime (eg. carrying a gun at age 17, as Rittenhouse was) however it is limited to lesser crimes
 
inbetween said:
Of course there aren't just those two types but these are the extremes that are involved. 99% of people who aren't involved in this will take a view that is somewhere in the middle, or they won't care. That doesn't mean that there isn't anything to see here.

The death to america 'mantra' is just a slogan, they are calling for an end to the continuous killings that are taking place by saying this is not the America we wish to live in, I don't see a problem with that. I obviously don't agree with the looting or violence which indeed needs sorting out.

Wanting the protests to stop by 'standing up to them' instead of engaging with the issue is just ridiculous though. It doesn't solve the issue and it suppresses the protests but it still just essentially agrees that killings and shootings are fine to continue.

Trump won't tackle any aspect of this because his base agrees that shouting death to america is far worse than the shooting of another black man.
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Most people, including the man charged for Killing 2 people in Kenosha, support the protests. It's the looting and burning of businesses that they ( like you) oppose. They unlike you though, were willing to do something about it. I.e. Stand guard.


The false narrative ( the media's and not necessarily yours) pretends the Militia guys were the ones challenging the 'protesters'. But there is video evidence from that night of one even including the first victim challenging and daring people with guns stationed on certain business properties to shoot them.

There issue wasn't that they couldn't Protest, no no no, it was often that they didn't have Carte Blanche to burn down and loot whatever business they wanted.

As they now believe is their right. You know, to stop injustice by a particular group of people (the police) we will burn down and loot the businesses of a different group of people (small business owners in the community).

How can it be that anyone thinks these 'we loot coz we can' folks are not wrong?
 
inbetween said:
Of course there aren't just those two types but these are the extremes that are involved. 99% of people who aren't involved in this will take a view that is somewhere in the middle, or they won't care. That doesn't mean that there isn't anything to see here.

The death to america 'mantra' is just a slogan, they are calling for an end to the continuous killings that are taking place by saying this is not the America we wish to live in, I don't see a problem with that. I obviously don't agree with the looting or violence which indeed needs sorting out.

Wanting the protests to stop by 'standing up to them' instead of engaging with the issue is just ridiculous though. It doesn't solve the issue and it suppresses the protests but it still just essentially agrees that killings and shootings are fine to continue.

Trump won't tackle any aspect of this because his base agrees that shouting death to america is far worse than the shooting of another black man.
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People can protest. Rioters don't get their 'issues' engaged with.
 
Bigga said:
Neither do dumbs ones not grounded in reality.

I'm as anti-war as it gets.

However, I can do nothing about wars gone by, so I have to appreciate those that have fought for others to have the life they live.

I can't see what the issue is...
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I know.

You are engaging in what's called a “system of confirmation” – an utterance that is neither truth nor fact, but rather a way of reinforcing a false narrative written by those it benefits. We have not fought, nor do we fight, for the reasons you've outlined.

The fact you believe it and a great number of veterans might believe it, does not make it true, and the reason it is not true, is it is not born out by the facts.
 
The perfect fumble said:
I know.

You are engaging in what's called a “system of confirmation” – an utterance that is neither truth nor fact, but rather a way of reinforcing a false narrative written by those it benefits. We have not fought, nor do we fight, for the reasons you've outlined.

The fact you believe it and a great number of veterans might believe it, does not make it true, and the reason it is not true, is it is not born out by the facts.
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You’re within your rights to believe whatever it is you wish to believe.
 
Presumably Shittenhouse had taken a gun with him to the protests in anticipation of having to use it in self defence when his presence inflamed the situation. Seems reasonable and I’m only surprised that the clashes didn’t lead to more perfectly reasonable murders, er self defence killings.
 
Dax777 said:
As they now believe is their right. You know, to stop injustice by a particular group of people (the police) we will burn down and loot the businesses of a different group of people (small business owners in the community).

How can it be that anyone thinks these 'we loot coz we can' folks are not wrong?
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There does not appear to be much discussion about this aspect.
A mob decides, immediately after any shooting, to then start destroying and looting the property of their fellow citizens, in many instances resulting in deaths. None of whom have any connection whatsoever with the original grievance.
 
Dax777 said:
Most people, including the man charged for Killing 2 people in Kenosha, support the protests. It's the looting and burning of businesses that they ( like you) oppose. They unlike you though, were willing to do something about it. I.e. Stand guard.

The false narrative ( the media's and not necessarily yours) pretends the Militia guys were the ones challenging the 'protesters'. But there is video evidence from that night of one even including the first victim challenging and daring people with guns stationed on certain business properties to shoot them.

There issue wasn't that they couldn't Protest, no no no, it was often that they didn't have Carte Blanche to burn down and loot whatever business they wanted.

As they now believe is their right. You know, to stop injustice by a particular group of people (the police) we will burn down and loot the businesses of a different group of people (small business owners in the community).

How can it be that anyone thinks these 'we loot coz we can' folks are not wrong?
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I'm happy for them to crackdown on the looting, that isn't a problem. But when do they start talking about the original grievance/s, the things that sparked the riots in the first place? It can't really be right that people want to crackdown on the riots and then go back to ignorance.

Some of the NBA are effectively on (peaceful) strike over this issue and this is the response from Trump.



How can protest over an issue be unpatriotic? America was quite literally formed by civil protest and funnily enough it was over the mistreatment of an entire race.
 
Dax777 said:
That's not a fact. That's an assumption. Facts in this scenario will only include things that already happened. An assumption is what you think would have happened. The above claim falls in the latter category.


1. He wasn't walking towards a protest with a rifle. He was stationed at a Used Car Lot hoping to protect it from rioters ( not Protestors) who were looking to loot and burn businesses down. He was there being interviewed by a reporter when one of the protestors accosted him.

2. He wasn't driven there by his mom. Another false story. He works in Kenosha as a lifeguard and stayed after work to join the Militia guarding properties.


I have to agree with your conclusion that we are fucked though. But I'd suggest thstd because more and more people care more about sides than they do about facts. And that I believe is a recipe for disaster.
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Genuine question but how do you know your facts are correct? Must be difficult over there what with all the fake news.

If the lad was "stationed" at a post, who instructed him to do that and what training did he have? Does this militia use communication between themselves so he can ask for assistance from other militia members or law enforcement?
 
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