To be fair Walker and Laporte (pre-injury) were considered to be among the best players in Europe in the respective positions.
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Kalidou Koulibaly
- Thread starter Matt Diablo
- Start date
Sheikh rattle and roll
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Not always in my opinion which is different to youYesWhat you are not taking into account, imo, is that most top teams who bring in 23 year olds, are bringing them in, to play with their established legend(s) & learn how to take over from them.
We don't have one. He's gone & the others have so far failed to live up to him.
our best defender came in at 23 Laporte the only certain starter same with our keeper 23
What age was KDB when he joined ?( I can’t remember) What about Sterling around 19 all immediate starters
That’s off the top of my head
I think we all agree we need someone
Oh to be Pep and Khaldoon they don’t always get it right what chance if we got if the best of the best can’t always do so
and without doubt that’s what they both are
We’re well aware.
The club paid 50m for John Stones and certainly got a ball-playing centreback but not an actually defender who knew how to defend. That last-minute signing turned out to be a costly mistake and we’ll never see that money again. And don’t give me the ”he was a beast in 17/18”. No he wasn’t, and his performance has never blown me away. If Stones was a successful signing in Peps eyes, we wouldn’t be in the market chasing Koulibaly. We’d have Laporte, Aké, Stones and Garcia (before he choose to leave), and been set for years.
Difference this time, they seem to have identified an actual defender who is also good at passing the ball around. This time more emphasis is put on trying to sign a defender who has a track record of defending well.
But do we just scout players ages?The van Dijk analogy was merely about his age. Saying he’s too old at 29 seems ridiculous to me. He’s probably at his peak.
What about shoe size?
There’s many categories we could look at this. From what I’ve seen, and it’s narrow compared to what a scout should’ve watched, but he looks a very, very risky signing based on the fee and his ‘peak’ is based on performances in a pretty inferior league (Smalling, Young etc). At 29 it looks even riskier because he has little time to adapt, particularly because our manager has about 10 months left on his deal.
If the guy at Athletico was the guy, Gimenez, even if he cost £100m at age 25, then I’d be more in favour of doing that because we’ll inevitably be looking for a replacement next year because KK hasn’t been good enough.
In my opinion, it’s high time we stopped being apologetic about our money, trying to be cute, and signing ill fitting guys to conform to a media narrative. Just go and sign the top guy at the right age. Maybe we might need to bin a lot of CFG signings at 5x£5-10m but so what.
Like I said before, if KK comes, I hope he is a success, but from what I’ve seen on his playing abilities and based on his age he looks a massive gamble. We shouldn’t be gambling at that level of cost, especially when you add in wages.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
To be fair Walker and Laporte (pre-injury) were considered to be among the best players in Europe in the respective positions.
They are both capable of being right up there, as was John Stones, imo, but it was obvious at the key points of the season, who Pep put first on the team sheet.
If Vinny was 28, 29, we would be looking for a 23 year old cb, not Koulibaly. But as we can't trust any of our cbs from last season, we are looking at the possibility of more experience.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Not always in my opinion which is different to youYes
our best defender came in at 23 Laporte the only certain starter same with our keeper 23
What age was KDB when he joined ?( I can’t remember) What about Sterling around 19 all immediate starters
That’s off the top of my head
And they were all playing next to other 23 year olds were they ?
Sheikh rattle and roll
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Be fair to Stones he is not a beast far from it but he is also not a car crashWe’re well aware.
The club paid 50m for John Stones and certainly got a ball-playing centreback but not an actually defender who knew how to defend. That last-minute signing turned out to be a costly mistake and we’ll never see that money again. And don’t give me the ”he was a beast in 17/18”. No he wasn’t, and his performance has never blown me away. If Stones was a successful signing in Peps eyes, we wouldn’t be in the market chasing Koulibaly. We’d have Laporte, Aké, Stones and Garcia (before he choose to leave), and been set for years.
Difference this time, they seem to have identified an actual defender who is also good at passing the ball around. This time more emphasis is put on trying to sign a defender who has a track record of defending well.
It is so difficult in an exposed high line
Maybe he would be better elsewhere
Do I think he is the answer of course not
Will we lose 50 million on him no he is young ish and we will get back a good amounyb
Koulibaly may well be the beast you crave he also may well be an ageing old man who gets roasted every week
I hope not who knows
So you don’t trust Pep and the board to sign Stones but you trust the same management team to sign Koulibaly?
hopefully we get it right
But this debate highlights how difficult is we all have different options and ideas
Sheikh rattle and roll
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No Sane and Jesus were around 21 and Mendy 23And they were all playing next to other 23 year olds were they ?
Neville Kneville
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No Sane and Jesus were around 21 and Mendy 23
And the core of the team ?
Sheikh rattle and roll
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Oh and Stones at the time was 23 so errrrr yes maybe they were was it notAnd they were all playing next to other 23 year olds were they ?
Ederson 23 Mendy 23 Stones 23 Laporte 23 Walker 27
That’s just the back line did we win the league that year I can’t remember
Sheikh rattle and roll
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See the next post re the defence 4/5 is the core in my bookAnd the core of the team ?
Anyway sleep for me night take care up the blues
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Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
So Kompany, Silva, Yaya, Aguero had no influence over any of these players as they came in then ?Oh and Stones at the time was 23 so errrrr yes maybe they were was it not
Ederson 23 Mendy 23 Stones 23 Laporte 23 Walker 27
That’s just the back line did we win the league that year I can’t remember
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
See the next post re the defence 4/5 is the core in my book
Anyway sleep for my night take care yo the blues
And that was Kompany.
Now it's Arsenal.
We’re well aware.
The club paid 50m for John Stones and certainly got a ball-playing centreback but not an actually defender who knew how to defend. That last-minute signing turned out to be a costly mistake and we’ll never see that money again. And don’t give me the ”he was a beast in 17/18”. No he wasn’t, and his performance has never blown me away. If Stones was a successful signing in Peps eyes, we wouldn’t be in the market chasing Koulibaly. We’d have Laporte, Aké, Stones and Garcia (before he choose to leave), and been set for years.
Difference this time, they seem to have identified an actual defender who is also good at passing the ball around. This time more emphasis is put on trying to sign a defender who has a track record of defending well.
Stones was brilliant 17/18. Stop trying to re-write history.
Experience doesn't always mean better, compare Sterling (20) and Pedro (28) as both players signed for the respective clubs in 15/16 season. Pedro was older and more experienced coming from Barcelona, however over the last 5 years it's Sterling who has been not only the better player, more consistent and by such a margin that it's unquestionable in terms of statistics and to the every day football fan. He's been first choice for us, Pedro however has been in and out of the Chelsea team over that same period.They are both capable of being right up there, as was John Stones, imo, but it was obvious at the key points of the season, who Pep put first on the team sheet.
If Vinny was 28, 29, we would be looking for a 23 year old cb, not Koulibaly. But as we can't trust any of our cbs from last season, we are looking at the possibility of more experience.
Son (23) at Spurs signed for near enough the same fee as Pedro, again has been the better player over the last 5 years.
Stones hasn’t been brilliant for a whole season with us. He’s had patches where he’s looked excellent but I feel on the whole he hasn’t really developed thus far.Stones was brilliant 17/18. Stop trying to re-write history.
His ball playing abilities are also much overrated for me. He is actually slow to distribute the ball progressively and usually opts for very simple passes that fail to break the line, at least quickly.
He’s one of those players that I can see why we signed him. He had so many potential up sides but he’s not got there. However, if we can get circa £30m back then in my opinion we should take it and reinvest elsewhere (as about (£20m of such will be profit given amortisation).
If you haven't been referring to Upamecano this whole time, then I have no idea what the hell you've been arguing.I've literally said for the last hour that my opinion doesn't matter, if the club are happy to pay whatever we end up paying for Koulibaly then great because I get to experience a top class player. Btw, I've made no comparisons to any player, so he can't be higher quality than nobody, glad that's cleared that up.
We both know your opinion doesn't matter for the club, but what I don't understand is how your having trouble with the club's decision to get Koulibaly over a young CB, that's what I've been explaining to you.
And if you do understand the club's decision to go this route, then you must think their too incompetent to make that decision, which is then fair, if not, no idea what you've arguing about for pages on here.
You have no idea clearly, so let's just leave it there before we both get frustrated, it's too late for a scrap :)If you haven't been referring to Upamecano this whole time, then I have no idea what the hell you've been arguing.
We both know your opinion doesn't matter for the club, but what I don't understand is how your having trouble with the club's decision to get Koulibaly over a young CB, that's what I've been explaining to you.
And if you do understand the club's decision to go this route, then you must think their too incompetent to make that decision, which is then fair, if not, no idea what you've arguing about for pages on here.
One year out of 4, that's the issue.Stones was brilliant 17/18. Stop trying to re-write history.