Another new Brexit thread

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So thats the end of the 'they need us more than we need them argument' Whilst here in the UK we spent the last 4 years navel gazing the Eu has very quietly grown its own trade with other countries by more than the total value of all trade it does with the UK.


So it doesn't need us any more.


Anyone noticing that the Eu aren't building any lorry parks?'
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
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So thats the end of the 'they need us more than we need them argument' Whilst here in the UK we spent the last 4 years navel gazing the Eu has very quietly grown its own trade with other countries by more than the total value of all trade it does with the UK.


So it doesn't need us any more.


Anyone noticing that the Eu aren't building any lorry parks?'
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Then it won't have any reason for us to rejoin then in the future, will it.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
This is why you've been so wrong about Brexit. There are not 'Many different versions' of it, what you mean are the incessant different negative connotations
placed on it post vote, by remainers. The simple facts are that we voted to leave, which means leaving the EU and all its tenets, we leave the SM, ECJ, and FOM. Current discussions are locked because the EU will not accept that it is now dealing with an independent state, as such a state would not accept any foreign laws to be accepted prior to talks, or accept ceding territory. Which countries that the EU has trade deals with, does?
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And yet, this sovereign government or independent state if you will, sacked the U.K. Ambassador to the United States because Mr Trump told us we had to and, desperately floundering around looking for deals, we did as we were told.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
View attachment 2073



So thats the end of the 'they need us more than we need them argument' Whilst here in the UK we spent the last 4 years navel gazing the Eu has very quietly grown its own trade with other countries by more than the total value of all trade it does with the UK.


So it doesn't need us any more.


Anyone noticing that the Eu aren't building any lorry parks?'
Click to expand...
Yet they still want a 'level playing field'. Maybe their lack of lorry parks is just stupidity and lack or preparedness? - exactly what remainers would be saying if we weren't planning them.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
And yet, this sovereign government or independent state if you will, sacked the U.K. Ambassador to the United States because Mr Trump told us we had to and, desperately floundering around looking for deals, we did as we were told.
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The desperate floundering is your interpretation as an EU advocate.
But it matters not, so far the UK is not prepared to discuss trade with someone who wants to override the jurisdiction of this country and supplement it with theirs, in a so called LPF. As far as I'm aware, we won't be accepting diktats from the US courts about how we conduct trade with Namibia and Peru.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
The desperate floundering is your interpretation as an EU advocate.
But it matters not, so far the UK is not prepared to discuss trade with someone who wants to override the jurisdiction of this country and supplement it with theirs, in a so called LPF. As far as I'm aware, we won't be accepting diktats from the US courts about how we conduct trade with Namibia and Peru.
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Trade deals with Namibia and Peru? Thank Christ for that, as I thought it might be a bit of a struggle but I’m somewhat reassured that our future prosperity is now certain. Thanks..
 
Ancient Citizen said:
The desperate floundering is your interpretation as an EU advocate.
But it matters not, so far the UK is not prepared to discuss trade with someone who wants to override the jurisdiction of this country and supplement it with theirs, in a so called LPF. As far as I'm aware, we won't be accepting diktats from the US courts about how we conduct trade with Namibia and Peru.
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One other thing, I’m not an EU advocate by any means. I’m a 56 year old bloke whose seen this country go through its most relatively prosperous time whilst being members of the EU. I have no great love for the institution although being able to travel freely throughout it has been a bonus. Friends of mine live over there and I know people who’ve worked over there and enjoyed it hugely. As far as the EU and domestic politics is concerned I never really gave it a thought as I knew that our government was not only ’in charge’ but, contrary to what we were told, was a huge presence in the EU decision making processes. That is a position, I don’t believe we can come anywhere near to by standing on our own but time will tell, I suppose.
Your main focus seems to be just on what we are leaving whilst mine is trying to work out what we are gaining, prosperity wise at least. The poorer we get, the poorer the poor get and that is just a universal truth. If Brexit leads to untold prosperity and a true ‘levelling up‘ there will be nobody more pleased than me; it’s just that it doesn’t look that it will and that means we get the worst of all worlds.
One last thing, don’t think that the USA, if they agree a trade deal at all in the current economic catastrophe, which they probably won’t, will not be insisting on a level playing field. Look at Trump and his views on stated aid, they’re much more explicit that those of the EU, for example.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Try China and India if you like, I just plucked two places on the planet, but anywhere will do, it's the same outcome.
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And the EU will not dictate the terms of any deal between the UK and non-EU countries. The other countries will, if they want a deal with the EU, not give us any better terms than what they give the EU. But we all knew that's what "this means".
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
One other thing, I’m not an EU advocate by any means. I’m a 56 year old bloke whose seen this country go through its most relatively prosperous time whilst being members of the EU. I have no great love for the institution although being able to travel freely throughout it has been a bonus. Friends of mine live over there and I know people who’ve worked over there and enjoyed it hugely. As far as the EU and domestic politics is concerned I never really gave it a thought as I knew that our government was not only ’in charge’ but, contrary to what we were told, was a huge presence in the EU decision making processes. That is a position, I don’t believe we can come anywhere near to by standing on our own but time will tell, I suppose.
Your main focus seems to be just on what we are leaving whilst mine is trying to work out what we are gaining, prosperity wise at least. The poorer we get, the poorer the poor get and that is just a universal truth. If Brexit leads to untold prosperity and a true ‘levelling up‘ there will be nobody more pleased than me; it’s just that it doesn’t look that it will and that means we get the worst of all worlds.
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Fair enough, we all have opinions, mine is that this country isn't some piddling backwater reliant on a bureaucratic, corrupt money pit to prosper.
But I understand your points, and can not guarantee anything, as yet, but believe that we will indeed prosper, out of it.
 
Vic said:
And the EU will not dictate the terms of any deal between the UK and non-EU countries. The other countries will, if they want a deal with the EU, not give us any better terms than what they give the EU. But we all knew that's what "this means".
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They may indeed not give us better terms, if the terms negotiated by the EU with these countries mirror what we ask for, then no problem. We then have the same deal, but are not forking out billions for the privilege.
 
Lots of red meat and chest beating in the papers today, walk away, no deal, Britons never will be slaves, yada, yada. Always interesting when they turn up the pubic rhetoric to eleven.

Although I think Frost made an error saying the EU called May’s bluff and that won’t happen this time around because that is just admitting we are still bluffing.

And we threatened in July to walk away unless the EU agreed to our terms by end of August.

It‘s now September and we are still at the negotiating table.

Too much sound and fury signifying nothing.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Fair enough, we all have opinions, mine is that this country isn't some piddling backwater reliant on a bureaucratic, corrupt money pit to prosper.
But I understand your points, and can not guarantee anything, as yet, but believe that we will indeed prosper, out of it.
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Our country isn’t, I agree. My main concern is our current government is though and I do have a very big worry that the end result of brexit will be greater disparity domestically, not less, and the benefits will be maximised for the few rather than the many. How they’ve handled the PPE contracts is a mini example of it, which I’m still surprised isn’t a much bigger scandal than it should be.

I’m not and have never been averse to brexit ever since the referendum, I’ve always believed it has to be implemented before it can ever be reversed. That’s not a carte blanche though, and I don’t share any of your optimism whilst this current government is in charge.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
They may indeed not give us better terms, if the terms negotiated by the EU with these countries mirror what we ask for, then no problem. We then have the same deal, but are not forking out billions for the privilege.
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I think it's pretty certain they will not give us better or even equal terms. We are going to have worse deals and therefore suffer financially. If I was playing for City and decided to move to Macclesfield and said I had as much chance of winning the FA cup as I had when I played for City people would say I needed certifying ! That is what the uk is effectively doing.As for forking out billions for the privilege I think most people probably realise by now it is approximately half of one percent of our annual GDP and there s a huge likelihood the detrimental effect this will have in the economy will be many times that figure. Anyway these points have been made millions of times but Brexiteers are ignoring it so let's get on with it and see shall we !?
 
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Ancient Citizen said:
They may indeed not give us better terms, if the terms negotiated by the EU with these countries mirror what we ask for, then no problem. We then have the same deal, but are not forking out billions for the privilege.
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We paid to be part of the EU for the huge benefit (way more than the contributions) of the single market, not for the much less significant benefit of deals with third countries (which of course we have now lost with not much sign of the promised replacements).
 
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