Another new Brexit thread

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peter.evans said:
Opinion based on informed expert analysis as I said let's wait and see, although we are already worse off as a result of the vote and we havent left yet ! So give us your opinion after all isn't that the whole point of the forum rather than just making stupid comments !
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Nothing wrong with your opinion mate and wasn't suggesting there was, merely that being like arseholes we should be wary of anyone telling us theirs smells of roses and not a bit like shit.
 
peter.evans said:
Yes good point but let's have your opinions otherwise we may as well shut down the forum !
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You're doing it wrong fella.

Have a list of questions and then demand answers to them.

Any answers given just ignore and then rinse and repeat.
 
west didsblue said:
We used to be a country renowned for standing by our commitments. Seems those days are gone.
Why should anyone trust us in the future?
It’s depressing.
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They won’t. Trust us that is. Signing an international treaty, hailing it as a triumph then winning an election on the back of it and then welshing on it nine months later is the sign of a Govt that no one on the right mind would trust.

The Irish will be furious as it raises the Irish border question again and threatens the GFA which means the Irish lobby in the US is going to raise merry hell. The Scots will feel that if the Govt can welsh on this then what value their say on a Scottish referendum. The EU 27 will put us in the freezer with a hard border and custom barriers we are simply not ready for and after four years of this failed nonsense we aim to rupture relations with our closest neighbours in the midst of a pandemic that hasn’t gone away as we approach winter.

Great effort all round, we are almost in failed State territory.
 
Ric said:
Pretty shameful stuff from the government if true, but not really a surprise.
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I' not making a moral case for this, but is this news? I think everyone assumed the WA was a sticking plaster to get the brexit bill through parliaments here and in Brussels. If there were any chance of us actually sticking to it I think BJ would have had a problem with the ERG at the time. The main areas seem to be state aid and NI customs.
 
Still think it is a crude bluff, although one that harms the government's and country's image. Probably been done to show that if we walk away with no deal, we will try an cause havoc with the GFA and the Irish border.

Cannot see the government having the stomach to go through with the mountain of shit this would cause. Bear in mind they have buckled under exams, herd immunity etc. If a democratic Biden takes power they will not agree to anything that endangers the GFA.

Be interesting to see if barnier loses his shit this week.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
I' not making a moral case for this, but is this news? I think everyone assumed the WA was a sticking plaster to get the brexit bill through parliaments here and in Brussels. If there were any chance of us actually sticking to it I think BJ would have had a problem with the ERG at the time. The main areas seem to be state aid and NI customs.
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Yes, I think it’s fairly significant news tbh.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
I' not making a moral case for this, but is this news? I think everyone assumed the WA was a sticking plaster to get the brexit bill through parliaments here and in Brussels. If there were any chance of us actually sticking to it I think BJ would have had a problem with the ERG at the time. The main areas seem to be state aid and NI customs.
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Does it not raise serious questions about the merit of Johnsons election promises. You were elected on the WA. The big benefit of the WA is that it protects the GFA and peace in NI at the expense of trade convenience with the rest of the UK. For many this was seen as a fair, if not completely welcome, trade.

The recent loss of John Hume should be a reminder of what a achievement the GFA is, to play fast and loose with it, is the height of recklessness.
 
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I suppose it gives the EU time to set up the hard border they want in the event of a no deal as there is no will in the UK/NI or Eire to do so. With regard to the GFA it is vitally important that the EU sets up and mans their border with NI as a British border would be inflammatory. The EU has experience of many such borders with other non-EU states so should do an excellent job. A soft border would of course present a naughty business/smuggling opportunity for Ireland/NI and we can't be having that now.
 
Marlo said:
Still think it is a crude bluff, although one that harms the government's and country's image. Probably been done to show that if we walk away with no deal, we will try an cause havoc with the GFA and the Irish border.

Cannot see the government having the stomach to go through with the mountain of shit this would cause. Bear in mind they have buckled under exams, herd immunity etc. If a democratic Biden takes power they will not agree to anything that endangers the GFA.

Be interesting to see if barnier loses his shit this week.
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Yeah, there are elements of that on the eve of negotiations. Fact remains the Govt hasn’t walked away from talks, they just keep threatening to walk away and even in the Johnson statement tomorrow he talks about:

‘We will of course always be ready to talk to our EU friends even in these circumstances. We will be ready to find sensible accommodations on practical issues such as flights, lorry transport, or scientific cooperation, if the EU wants to do that.’

Which are all things, and more like security, data protection etc, we need so even with no deal we will still be in negotiations with the EU, but with zero goodwill or trust.

At some point the UK is going to have to come to terms with the EU and do a deal. It’s problem is that it doesn’t like the only deal the EU is prepared to agree, hence it has to threaten to blow everything up. The other problem is that welshing on an international treaty that you hailed as a triumph nine months ago isn’t that straightforward and kind of makes us look like dicks.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
I suppose it gives the EU time to set up the hard border they want in the event of a no deal as there is no will in the UK/NI or Eire to do so. With regard to the GFA it is vitally important that the EU sets up and mans their border with NI as a British border would be inflammatory. The EU has experience of many such borders with other non-EU states so should do an excellent job. A soft border would of course present a naughty business/smuggling opportunity for Ireland/NI and we can't be having that now.
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The RoI will set up and man their side of the border. They won’t be thrilled but they’ll just blame the English and everyone will agree apart from some hardcore Unionists. We will have to man the border on the NI side. That’s is what you do with borders in the absence of international agreements.

Nicola is already tweeting with excitement over this which pretty much tells you how it will play in Scotland and if the UK can renege on an international treaty then Spain will look at Gibraltar and wonder if they are really that obligated under their treaty provisions.

The problem with disregarding International Law is that it can work both ways.
 
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