Another new Brexit thread

[Chris in London]

Just clarify for the sake of the simple. When you say "ignoring international commitments" you mean that our sovereign Parliament can abrogate any international treaty. Is that breaking international law?

Is there any reason why the EU fishing fleet need obey the 200 mile limit to UK waters? Isn't that governed by international law?

Yes, our sovereign parliament can ignore any international treaty it chooses. So if
Parliament were say, to withdraw from the GFA, then as a matter of U.K. law the GFA would no longer have legal force. However in the real world, unilateral withdrawal from international agreements has consequences. So if the EU fishing fleet started ignoring our territorial waters, we’d sink them. Or, more realistically, if we put in jeopardy the GFA, the US would be unlikely to agree a trade deal with us.

The reason is that Parliament is the supreme arbiter of what is lawful within the U.K. So if it says blue eyed babies are no longer lawful, that’s the law.

 

[grunge]

This is going to be thrown in our faces for years to come.

Anytime we talk about countries ‘breaking international law’, it will be used against us.

That we are so desperate we resort to this.

Im more concerned that a hard boarder in Ireland, contravening the GFA and will reignite the troubles. This manoeuvre could lead to one and Its a real risk.

 

[BobKowalski]

I suppose they're not lying about it, which is a start.

Yeah, there is no equivocation. It breaks international law. More practised breakers of international law, China, Russia etc always swear blind that their actions never break international law.

We intend to, and if we actually do, then the China and Russia’s of this world will beat us over the head with it forever. Not to mention the EU will eschew any notion of ‘trust’ or ‘goodwill‘ in any future negotiations and Scotland will use it to justify their stance that the UK Govt (ie the English) cannot be trusted. Same with the Irish, especially those in the North who have been ignored and used since this whole saga started four years ago.

But actually admitting we will break international law? We can’t even do Super Villainy right.

 

[Vic]

Ah its our honour that is now the subject of attack?

Makes a change i suppose.....

We have put up with years of accusations of being against our own country.

Do you really not see it? We've been told we must respect democracy to get Brexit done, even if people had changed their minds (and Parliament had said it only an advisory referendum). Johnson changes the WA to something he'd said no British PM could sign up to, wins an election on this oven-ready deal, gets it through Parliament, gets it ratified, and now wants to change the very thing that he'd changed to get it through Parliament.

And mcfc1632 is full of "bile" against a civil servant who says, I can't go along with that and "does the honourable thing" and resigns.

 

[Vic]

Yeah, there is no equivocation. It breaks international law. More practised breakers of international law, China, Russia etc always swear blind that their actions never break international law.

We intend to, and if we actually do, then the China and Russia’s of this world will beat us over the head with it forever. Not to mention the EU will eschew any notion of ‘trust’ or ‘goodwill‘ in any future negotiations and Scotland will use it to justify their stance that the UK Govt (ie the English) cannot be trusted. Same with the Irish, especially those in the North who have been ignored and used since this whole saga started four years ago.

But actually admitting we will break international law? We can’t even do Super Villainy right.

Scotland can go UDI

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

We have put up with years of accusations of being against our own country.

Do you really not see it? We've been told we must respect democracy to get Brexit done, even if people had changed their minds (and Parliament had said it only an advisory referendum). Johnson changes the WA to something he'd said no British PM could sign up to, wins an election on this oven-ready deal, gets it through Parliament, gets it ratified, and now wants to change the very thing that he'd changed to get it through Parliament.

And mcfc1632 is full of "bile" against a civil servant who says, I can't go along with that and "does the honourable thing" and resigns.

I think I could actually make a remain bingo card out of this post.

 

[BobKowalski]

We have put up with years of accusations of being against our own country.

Do you really not see it? We've been told we must respect democracy to get Brexit done, even if people had changed their minds (and Parliament had said it only an advisory referendum). Johnson changes the WA to something he'd said no British PM could sign up to, wins an election on this oven-ready deal, gets it through Parliament, gets it ratified, and now wants to change the very thing that he'd changed to get it through Parliament.

And mcfc1632 is full of "bile" against a civil servant who says, I can't go along with that and "does the honourable thing" and resigns.

They don‘t see it. They never will. Zero point in trying. The wider implications of what we are doing, the impact on our Union, never go beyond Brexit. There is nothing else that matters and anything we do will be justified in the name of Brexit.

For Brexit to survive it needs conflict, nationalism and an unswerving belief that remainers , the elite, civil servants, the EU, whoever are all out to prevent it which means there are always fresh enemies to be vanquished.

 

[blueinsa]

Do you really not see it?

I do, you're upset as others are. Our sovereign parliament was all the rage last year as it voted down the government time and time again but now, with a pro brexit majority it will do the opposite it's an affront to democracy and the end of the world and you are all outraged.

International law? I remember last year during the migrant crisis the EU being accused of similar in regards its lack of action to the mediterranean crisis.

No one is getting arrested. No one will sit before an international court and no one will go to jail Vic. Its not how it works.

This government, elected with a huge majority and asked to get brexit done is doing just that.

 

[blueinsa]

They don‘t see it. They never will. Zero point in trying. The wider implications of what we are doing, the impact on our Union, never go beyond Brexit. There is nothing else that matters and anything we do will be justified in the name of Brexit.

For Brexit to survive it needs conflict, nationalism and an unswerving belief that remainers , the elite, civil servants, the EU, whoever are all out to prevent it which means there are always fresh enemies to be vanquished.

Yeah Bob....touche!

 

[mat]

JRM and other rich Tory bastards rubbing their hands at their multi million windfall betting on no deal whilst the rest of us get fucked dry.


But yeah, we got blue passports...

 

[stonerblue]

Aye, courtesy of the Simpsons.
They're not too keen on the EU either.

Your rant was full of hate so don't pretend you were joking.

 

[stonerblue]

I'm not surprised, racism is the usual fallback.
While we're still transitioning I might complain to the ECJ about the French calling us Rosbifs, some of us are fucking vegans ffs.

You come out with racist shit, you get pulled on it. You're backtracking doesn't wash with me.

 

[Vic]

JRM and other rich Tory bastards rubbing their hands at their multi million windfall betting on no deal whilst the rest of us get fucked dry.


But yeah, we got blue passports...

Black, really.

 

[bluethrunthru]

However in the real world, unilateral withdrawal from international agreements has consequences. So if the EU fishing fleet started ignoring our territorial waters, we’d sink them

No we wouldn't - we'd bitch and moan and say they were transgressing international maritime laws to which I'd fully expect a response to be " Ha! Thats rich coming from you" as they just carry on shooting the nets and fishing.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Shameless.

Does any Leaver have any idea of honour left?

Did any have any to start with....????

 

[Vic]

Attorney General and Lord Chancellor, sworn to uphold the law, have gone to ground.

 

[stonerblue]

ENGLAND has offered to call a temporary halt to jokes about how quickly Italian tanks can reverse.

Prime minister David Cameron made the offer to Italian counterpart Matteo Renzi last night in a desperate two-hour phone call.

Mr Cameron said: “I stopped short of banning the Italian tank joke completely because that would be a profound erosion of our national sovereignty.


“I’ve offered him a three year tank joke ceasefire, which, being Italian, he was more than happy to accept.

Remind me again which country had almost their entire army execute a mass run away in ww2

 

[Len Rum]

I do, you're upset as others are. Our sovereign parliament was all the rage last year as it voted down the government time and time again but now, with a pro brexit majority it will do the opposite it's an affront to democracy and the end of the world and you are all outraged.

International law? I remember last year during the migrant crisis the EU being accused of similar in regards its lack of action to the mediterranean crisis.

No one is getting arrested. No one will sit before an international court and no one will go to jail Vic. Its not how it works.
This government, elected with a huge majority and asked to get brexit done is doing just that.

Could make the future of the Falklands interesting (the British argument for sovereignty over these islands being Self determination of the people, it being a fundamental tenet of International Law).
Oh and who owns Gibraltar ( Treaty of Utrecht 1703 says it's us)? But hey if Spain want to ignore international law.
U getting my drift mate?

 

[bluethrunthru]

Attorney General and Lord Chancellor, sworn to uphold the law, have gone to ground.

they won't be giving any interviews any time soon then

 

[meltonblue]

They don‘t see it. They never will. Zero point in trying. The wider implications of what we are doing, the impact on our Union, never go beyond Brexit. There is nothing else that matters and anything we do will be justified in the name of Brexit.

For Brexit to survive it needs conflict, nationalism and an unswerving belief that remainers , the elite, civil servants, the EU, whoever are all out to prevent it which means there are always fresh enemies to be vanquished.

It does feel like we’re getting to peak irony when you have people backing the sanctimony of a sovereign parliament defending MPs that are breaching the ministerial code of that sovereign parliament in order to do it!

Regardless of individual views on brexit itself, the attempted implementation of it has been an ongoing clusterfuck of the tories own making throughout. Andrew Neil’s summed it up well today - lamentable to say the least.