Another new Brexit thread

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

I hope you are right. I’m cynical when it comes to people speaking truth to power. Perhaps some will speak out, but the majority, if not all, will vote according to Party rather than principle.

Your assumption there is that anyone in the Tory Party actually has any principles. When people show you who they really are .... believe them.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Those epithets haven't been applied to the English in general, just the subset of which you are a member.

They have been used incessantly to describe people who refused to accept the lunatics who were the alternatives to the government. You are amongst those lunatics.
If we're having a name calling session, it's your go.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Your rant was full of hate so don't pretend you were joking.

They mock us, we mock them. I'm just smiling at the outrage that ensues from EU adherents whenever we do, this is country is described as laughable, is not a world power, has little influence, but dare take the piss out of those over the channel and you're described as hateful.
I don't know how I'll get over it.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

You come out with racist shit, you get pulled on it. You're backtracking doesn't wash with me.

Ok tell me what was racist, this is getting irritating.

 

[mcfc1632]

Tbh our international standing and trust is probably the least of our worries at present although I do take your point with regard to going back on our word. I also think / hope we'll get a deal and suspect there will be much posturing as well as a little give and take to allow both the EU and Boris to come out alive and claiming either victory or a well fought stalemate. That in itself should guarantee that the worst excess of hard / no deal brexit is avoided although its obviously always a risk.

Of course - nobody wants the UK to be in a position where it finds it necessary to break international law - but a lot of the 'faux outrage' expressed on here is clearly just the guff of those wishing to be offended and indignant. Some of the 'usual suspects' are just tripping over themselves to demonstrate their double-standards - oh what a difference a year makes;-)

For me the important point is to realise where we are and how we got here.....

Yes - the Remainers disingenuously make a lot of the fact that Johnson campaigned on let's get Brexit done and signed off on the WA - but that is not as black and white as the Remainers seek to make it out to be with their selectivity in how they remember things

The WA - even minus the utterly poisonous unfettered backstop - was a product of Remainer acquiescence to EU instruction - it was the evidence of May/Robbin's incompetence

When Johnson took office - he was hamstrung by the EU sycophancy that dominated Westminster until eventually the sycophants placed their own arrogance as a priority and accepted the opportunity of a GE - whilst utterly failing to understand the views of the electorate

It is easy to see why Cummings has become so important to Johnson - it will have been Cummings that decided on the election mantra of 'Get Brexit done' - and (yet again) he was successful. But he and all committed Brexiteers knew that the WA was a poison chalice that had to be dealt with.

Which is why - from a negotiating POV - I am absolutely delighted to see the way Frost/Cummings/Johnson have handled the interaction with the EU during 2020 - unsavoury and ruthless it might be - but it has also been very effective in breaking the EU stranglehold that May/Robbins and the Remainers had placed the UK in.

Yes - they are all sounding butthurt now - but it seems that the UK government is being led by people with the required steel and callousness to do what is necessary to ensure that the UK does become a genuinely independent state and is able to invest however it wants to support its levelling up agenda

After years of a vacillating May - this is refreshing and I can understand why some of the Remainers on here - along with Coveney and Barnier - are butthurt and crying 'no fair'

 

[Vic]

Of course - nobody wants the UK to be in a position where it finds it necessary to break international law - but a lot of the 'faux outrage' expressed on here is clearly just the guff of those wishing to be offended and indignant. Some of the 'usual suspects' are just tripping over themselves to demonstrate their double-standards - oh what a difference a year makes;-)

For me the important point is to realise where we are and how we got here.....

Yes - the Remainers disingenuously make a lot of the fact that Johnson campaigned on let's get Brexit done and signed off on the WA - but that is not as black and white as the Remainers seek to make it out to be with their selectivity in how they remember things

The WA - even minus the utterly poisonous unfettered backstop - was a product of Remainer acquiescence to EU instruction - it was the evidence of May/Robbin's incompetence

When Johnson took office - he was hamstrung by the EU sycophancy that dominated Westminster until eventually the sycophants placed their own arrogance as a priority and accepted the opportunity of a GE - whilst utterly failing to understand the views of the electorate

It is easy to see why Cummings has become so important to Johnson - it will have been Cummings that decided on the election mantra of 'Get Brexit done' - and (yet again) he was successful. But he and all committed Brexiteers knew that the WA was a poison chalice that had to be dealt with.

Which is why - from a negotiating POV - I am absolutely delighted to see the way Frost/Cummings/Johnson have handled the interaction with the EU during 2020 - unsavoury and ruthless it might be - but it has also been very effective in breaking the EU stranglehold that May/Robbins and the Remainers had placed the UK in.

Yes - they are all sounding butthurt now - but it seems that the UK government is being led by people with the required steel and callousness to do what is necessary to ensure that the UK does become a genuinely independent state and is able to invest however it wants to support its levelling up agenda

After years of a vacillating May - this is refreshing and I can understand why some of the Remainers on here - along with Coveney and Barnier - are butthurt and crying 'no fair'

A long winded admission that, like the referendum, the 2019 GE was based on lies and false pretences. And that is without the reminder that Johnson promised we would still be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border (that's not a Remainer stranglehold).

 

[BobKowalski]

Of course - nobody wants the UK to be in a position where it finds it necessary to break international law - but a lot of the 'faux outrage' expressed on here is clearly just the guff of those wishing to be offended and indignant. Some of the 'usual suspects' are just tripping over themselves to demonstrate their double-standards -oh what a difference a year makes;-)

For me the important point is to realise where we are and how we got here.....

Yes - the Remainers disingenuously make a lot of the fact that Johnson campaigned on let's get Brexit done and signed off on the WA - but that is not and black and white as the Remainers seek to make it out to be as they are selective in how they remember things

The WA - even minus the utterly poisonous unfettered backstop - was a product of Remainer acquiescence to EU instruction - it was the evidence of May/Robbin's incompetence

When Johnson took office - he was hamstrung by the EU sycophancy that dominated Westminster until eventually the sycophants placed their own arrogance as a priority and failed to understand the views of the electorate

It is easy to see why Cummings has become so important to Johnson - it will have been Cummings that decided on the election mantra of 'Get Brexit done' - and (yet again) he was successful. But he and all committed Brexiteers knew that the WA was a poison chalice that had to be dealt with - which is why, from a negotiating POV - I am absolutely delighted to see the way Frost/Cummings/Johnson have handled the interaction with the EU during 2020 - unsavoury and ruthless it might be - but it has also been very effective in breaking the EU stranglehold that May/Robbins and the Remainers had placed the UK in.

Yes - they are all sounding butthurt now - but it seems that the UK government is being led by people with the requires steel and callousness to do what is necessary to ensure that the UK does become a genuinely independent state and is able to invest however it wants to support its levelling up agenda

After years of a vacillating May - this is refreshing and I can understand why some of the Remainers on here - along with Coveney and Barnier - are butthurt and crying 'no fair'

You mean by signing an International Treaty then finding out we don’t like it nine months later because we can’t lie our way out of what it actually means anymore?

Brexit. When four years worth of lies catches up with you and all that is left is to break the law and our word.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Oh for the happy halcyon days of civil servants working to scupper brexit while remainer mps scurry up the the despatch box with new bills and a mutual love-in with John Bercow.

All ending in tears for many of them, and short arse never got a knighthood.
Shame.

 

[BobKowalski]

Pretty much where we are this morning...

‘Leo Varadkar on Morning Ireland: Countries around the world "are scratching their heads" wondering if they should make deals with the UK now… I don't think there can be a FTA in circumstances where the UK is not honouring the withdrawal agreement"

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Soft brexit could have worked but the ERG knobs were never going to let that happen.

Just watching andrea leadsom on the news now talking about the WA. It's pathetic.

Soft Brexit would not have worked, because there was nothing on the ballot paper that provided for it. It's a term coined by remainers after the vote to Stay in the EU's single market and customs union, in other words, not leaving, so nothing to do with ERG, or any other obscure groups, just the will of the people.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

The only reason they put up with it in the first place was on the assumption this would happen. We were all warned last autumn that the Govt would abandon the political declaration and WA and risk a hard Brexit and did we listen? - Yes, and BJ was returned with a massive majority. It's this giving the public one vote each that messes things up!

True, it's us wot dun it.

 

[BobKowalski]

Soft Brexit would not have worked, because there was nothing on the ballot paper that provided for it. It's a term coined by remainers after the vote to Stay in the EU's single market and customs union, in other words, not leaving, so nothing to do with ERG, or any other obscure groups, just the will of the people.

Except the Leave Campaign stressed the economic ties would be maintained, even enhanced. More lies.

The GE was fought on getting Brexit done with an oven ready deal. It was a great deal. Tory MPs all pledged to support our ‘great deal’. More lies.

Four years of lies, and you are still lying.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

so you constantly telling us the world is laughing or describing toddler tantrums is literally falling on deaf ears.

The amount of times you see on here that the world is laughing at us.
Some folk must have an awful lot of mates.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Except the Leave Campaign stressed the economic ties would be maintained, even enhanced. More lies.

The GE was fought on getting Brexit done with an oven ready deal. It was a great deal. Tory MPs all pledged to support our ‘great deal’. More lies.

Four years of lies, and you are still lying.

wooooo there horsey , the race isn’t over yet .

the idea that a free trade deal IS only good for the UK and not the EU and the EU would be fine without one and are actually doing us a favour Is nonsense . They want a deal , we want a deal let’s hope it happens

lets wait To see the final outcome

 

[mcfc1632]

All ending in tears for many of them, and short arse never got a knighthood.
Shame.

All this indignant outrage - Delicious

So many butthurt and not able to understand why its all going tits for them

Oh - and that **** Bercow - don't hear much from him anymore;-)

 

[BobKowalski]

wooooo there horsey , the race isn’t over yet .

the idea that a free trade deal IS only good for the UK and not the EU and the EU would be fine without one and are actually doing us a favour Is nonsense . They want a deal , we want a deal let’s hope it happens

lets wait To see the final outcome

Neigh lad.

Never said the EU don’t want a deal. But to do a deal it needs a degree of trust and good faith on both sides. As Varadkar pointed out this morning ‘I don't think there can be a FTA in circumstances where the UK is not honouring the withdrawal agreement’

How do you do a deal with a country that won’t honour a deal that you signed nine months ago? A deal that was taken to the country in a GE and endorsed?

Would you negotiate and sign a new contract with someone who declined to honour a previous contract with you?

 

[mcfc1632]

Soft Brexit would not have worked, because there was nothing on the ballot paper that provided for it. It's a term coined by remainers after the vote to Stay in the EU's single market and customs union, in other words, not leaving, so nothing to do with ERG, or any other obscure groups, just the will of the people.

Yep - they fabricate so much they forget the reality

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Neigh lad.

Never said the EU don’t want a deal. But to do a deal it needs a degree of trust and good faith on both sides. As Varadkar pointed out this morning ‘I don't think there can be a FTA in circumstances where the UK is not honouring the withdrawal agreement’

How do you do a deal with a country that won’t honour a deal that you signed nine months ago? A deal that was taken to the country in a GE and endorsed?

Would you negotiate and sign a new contract with someone who declined to honour a previous contract with you?

I think it comes down to what negotiate in good faith means . uk think eu are not doing that as not treating the uk as an independent sovereign state .

am sure the eu think the uk aren’t either .

but let’s see.

 

[BobKowalski]

I think it comes down to what negotiate in good faith means . uk think eu are not doing that as not treating the uk as an independent sovereign state .

am sure the eu think the uk aren’t either .

but let’s see.

Every country in the EU is an independent sovereign state. I’m pretty sure they understand the concept.

They also understand the concept of honouring agreements. Does the UK?

 

[joe123]

Neigh lad.

Never said the EU don’t want a deal. But to do a deal it needs a degree of trust and good faith on both sides. As Varadkar pointed out this morning ‘I don't think there can be a FTA in circumstances where the UK is not honouring the withdrawal agreement’

How do you do a deal with a country that won’t honour a deal that you signed nine months ago? A deal that was taken to the country in a GE and endorsed?

Would you negotiate and sign a new contract with someone who declined to honour a previous contract with you?

100% this. Let's see what the actual details are but it doesn't sound good when we're openly admitting we're going to break international law. Given this backtracking, I'd understand the EU not favourable terms to a partner it can't trust.

The weird one for me is that Johnson negotiated this deal, prevented parliamentary scrutiny of it and subsequently won a GE on virtue of him getting Brexit done with it. Now he's backtracking and Brexit supporters are still backing him! Honestly why??