It's Quiet thread 14 - 'do one' edition

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Our defence is not rubbish, and the constant exaggerations don't help discussion.

But there are issues. We do have shaky personnel at the back. We should be conceding under 20 goals a season with the system we have. Sometimes in fairness it's as solid as it needs to be (hence all the clean sheets) but it has a habit of dropping a bollock and sometimes this past season it's struggled against better attacks. If you look back at all the goals we conceded this season I reckon a lot come down to bad pieces of defending by at least one player.

To repeat our defence obviously isn't bad but it's certainly incomplete. Really I think another CB with a bit of leadership plugs almost all the problems. I do think it's that simple. Our defence becomes significantly less porous almost immediately.

Another thing is that I think with our system the xG conceded should be lower, as impressive as it's been. The way we play would cause even the most defensively excellent back line ever issues. That probably stems from worse pressing up top, but I'd argue that THAT stems from Pep not trusting the defence.


Basically, we're better defensively than people say we are, certainly as a team. But there's improvements to be made and the most obvious fix is in the CB department.

How many of the goals we concede, require above average play, from our opponents ?
 
To be fair he was only covering for his own catastrophic fuck up in twatting the ball against Ederson’s head when he was caught in a blind panic after losing his man

1) He didn't lose his man, he was tracking Mane and was in a good position. What happens is Walker squares up to Salah which allows space in the right channel directly behind him.
2) Stones is on Mane's left side so when Salah plays the well weighted pass it takes Stones out of the game
3) After Mane's shot Stones continues running back to the goal (like any good central defender does) in case of an oppurtunity to clear. Blind panic would have seen Stones most likely try to make a diving tackle on Mane, therefore risking a penalty and a red card.
4) The ball hits the post and falls to Stone's who because of his decision to track the ball, finds himself in a good position to clear.
5) As he kicks the ball he is confronted by a reckless dive from Ederson (a common trait of Ederson's which can't be denied) and the ball clatters off him. Was there a shout from either player? Who knows, but as Stones finds himself goal side of the ball he's in the best position to clear.
6) Despite the ball bouncing of Ederson and back over his head, Stones has the presence of mind to quickly turn back towards his own net and make the goal line clearance which was one of the key moments in us winning the league.
 
I am amazed at the ability of some posters to slag off most things we do, despite our success: the defence is shite; Txixi is shite; we sell everybody for no money; we get ripped off every time we buy; we try and penny pinch and then pay the full amount; Rodri is slow; Gundo ambles; Jesus will never be Sergio; save Bernardo etc. We are the most successful team in the last decade but apparently have innumerable problems.
 
I am amazed at the ability of some posters to slag off most things we do, despite our success: the defence is shite; Txixi is shite; we sell everybody for no money; we get ripped off every time we buy; we try and penny pinch and then pay the full amount; Rodri is slow; Gundo ambles; Jesus will never be Sergio; save Bernardo etc. We are the most successful team in the last decade but apparently have innumerable problems.
My favourite, we keep making the same mistakes. Well if the results are the same as the last 8 years, I hope we do.:)
 
How many of the goals we concede, require above average play, from our opponents ?
Where are you going here? That the defence isn't good enough at defending at times? I agree. It's naive to say that it's good enough as is. Too many goals were because of bad defending.

But there are plenty of times that it is good enough. We weren't anywhere near as good at retaining possession or pressing last season and yet we got a lot of clean sheets. They must have done something right some of the time.

It's not a great defence as it stands, but I refute the idea that it's an awful one.
 
I am amazed at the ability of some posters to slag off most things we do, despite our success: the defence is shite; Txixi is shite; we sell everybody for no money; we get ripped off every time we buy; we try and penny pinch and then pay the full amount; Rodri is slow; Gundo ambles; Jesus will never be Sergio; save Bernardo etc. We are the most successful team in the last decade but apparently have innumerable problems.

We did have the best cb in the world, & the best def mid in the world for most of it.

We managed to do a lot of it, without a left back though.

Because we have been very very good, at the stuff we are good at.
 
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I am amazed at the ability of some posters to slag off most things we do, despite our success: the defence is shite; Txixi is shite; we sell everybody for no money; we get ripped off every time we buy; we try and penny pinch and then pay the full amount; Rodri is slow; Gundo ambles; Jesus will never be Sergio; save Bernardo etc. We are the most successful team in the last decade but apparently have innumerable problems.
It'll be a miracle if we hit 40 points this season.
 
most of our goals conceded are from wayward passes, we push our fullbacks up high and wide , the ball comes into our dm, if the dm loses possession or gives a bad ball then the oppo break, leaving the CB exposed ,imo we shoot ourselves in the foot 99% of the time rather than great play from the oppo, a brilliant passing DM is what we need to cut out 50% of the goals we concede , and a 20% improvement in our finishing.
 
Where are you going here? That the defence isn't good enough at defending at times? I agree. It's naive to say that it's good enough as is. Too many goals were because of bad defending.

But there are plenty of times that it is good enough. We weren't anywhere near as good at retaining possession or pressing last season and yet we got a lot of clean sheets. They must have done something right some of the time.

It's not a great defence as it stands, but I refute the idea that it's an awful one.
Imo our defence is based around pressing, possession & nothing else.

If the rags sign Reguilon, it's arguable that their defence & defensive midfield is better defensively than ours that finished the season, man for man.
 
Imo our defence is based around pressing, possession & nothing else.

If the rags sign Reguilon, it's arguable that their defence & defensive midfield is better defensively than ours that finished the season, man for man.
I'll take ederson over de gea, walker over wan bissaka, laporte over maguire, any of our defenders over lindelof and rodri over matic.
 
Imo our defence is based around pressing, possession & nothing else.

If the rags sign Reguilon, it's arguable that their defence & defensive midfield is better defensively than ours that finished the season, man for man.
It is, but that isn't a bad thing if it's done well, as Bayern showed and we have before. I think we'll find it easier this season if we use the right midfield alongside the defensive additions. Not fitting silva in make us a better pressing team, great player that he was, than we were last season, as does Torres, or Jesus playing too.
 
Imo our defence is based around pressing, possession & nothing else.

If the rags sign Reguilon, it's arguable that their defence & defensive midfield is better defensively than ours that finished the season, man for man.
And it's been a good way of defence for us.

Anyway, is it that everytime the ball gets past the press we're just hoping and praying that we don't concede? There's still defending to be done. We still had plenty of defending to do in 18/19 but there were plenty of times we dealt with it excellently.

Again I'm not pretending our defence is mightily good at defending. They're not even coached to be. But you are massively doing them a disservice. Stick United or even Liverpool's back 4 in our team and ask them to play the same way and I don't think they'd look anywhere near as good. Maybe still better than ours, and that's something to be looked at, but it'd be nowhere near as big a gulf as it may currently look. I think a big CB signing transforms our defence back to the levels of 17-19, just as it only took Ederson and Walker to take us out of our 16/17 rut.
 
I'll take ederson over de gea, walker over wan bissaka, laporte over maguire, any of our defenders over lindelof and rodri over matic.

Not the keeper.

Walker is a better footballer than Wan Bissaka but not better defensively, Garcia would not get a game as a defender in any other PL team, Laporte would be better than Maguire but is curently all over the place & we don't have a defender of any kind at left back.

Rodri can be ok but has done nothing defensively in recent times at all, Gundogan can't defend full stop, the rags have 3 to choose from who all have a case. In actual fact Fernandinho is still better than all of them on both sides but doesn't play there.

We are miles better at football back there but equally as hopeless in the other direction.
 
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