2020 US Elections

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pudge said:
Anyone who is impressed by Trump tonight or feels Trump is doing well tonight had their mind made up before the debate started.
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#45 did exactly what he set out to do, like it or not.

It was HIGHLY predictable and anyone who thought there was going to be a 'debate' doesn't understand the stakes at play, full stop.

So, by that metric #45 did well.
 
Bigga said:
That's where you're wrong, Doc.

I acknowledge fully how desperation allowed the Wolf in the door.

I also keep asking the question because the NeoLibs on here keep avoiding the truth.
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I'm happy to concede. My point wasn't to deflect from your points in any way, I think you know where I agree with you and I do agree with much of what I you say. It is just that Trump out is such an overarching tenet that your more far reaching ideas (ideals) as to what needs to be done to improve the situation has either been lost in the wind or at least set aside in order to concentrate on what seems more urgent.

Shortish post so I would like to touch on more but that will do for now.
 
mat said:
“Stand down and stand by.”

Just rewound the debate.

Trump said that when asked to denounce white supremacists.


I hope the pundits jump straight on that.
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Being impartial, despite many of the group of tools accusations, I think he misspoke.

I think he meant to say "stand back". It doesn't make it any better, but I have to be honest on what I thought about it.

And by the 'acceptable' parameters of the board, it's better to be a 'little bit racist' than 'fully all-the-way-in racist'.

That's how it works with the thread, right...?
 
Bigga said:
Being impartial, despite many of the group of tools accusations, I think he misspoke.

I think he meant to say "stand back". It doesn't make it any better, but I have to be honest on what I thought about it.

And by the 'acceptable' parameters of the board, it's better to be a 'little bit racist' than 'fully all-the-way-in racist'.

That's how it works with the thread, right...?
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Surely to be a good president all you have to do is make yourself clear. For some subjects it's difficult, for some not. This is one that is not.

That's how it works.
 
Rascal said:
The echo of the 1930s from Trump and his acolytes is scary

The comparisons with the Sturmabteilung (SA brown shirts) and the Proud boys are not far fetched, both are/were anti left wing/Antifa/communist and used as street fighters in order to gain political power.

Trump saying "stand by" is chilling.
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Do you not think it's possible to misspeak in the moment when a lot's going on? See, people give Biden a pass when he does it, so I'm not sure why this can't be afforded the other way and I am LOATHED to say this of either 'candidate'! I'm just playing the BM game.

For #45 to say this as a 'command' would be politic suicide, but to misspeak gives the MSM the knife to stuck it into him/ his run.
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
You’ve only got 2 candidates to take the country forward, are you really advocating Trump for that job, considering how divisive he has been for the states?

From a down to earth bloke in the UK I’m looking at the US and cringing with the thought of another Trump term. IMO, it is an ABT.
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I'm not 'advocating' for either of them. The 'debate' played out EXACTLY as I thought it would.

As for #45 being "divisive", that's disingenuous as a position to take. The States ARE divided and divided enough to allow someone like #45 to walk in through the door.

Again, roundly ignored by the usual suspects on the thread.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
He doesn’t think the alternative IS very bad, Doc. There’s nothing for him to acknowledge. He’d rather that Trump win and millions suffer so that he can win a “victory” in a chat room rather than the people he purports to care for live better, happier lives. That’s why he gets flak, or gets ignored, as he goddamn should.
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I doubt that is true. @Bigga has been most vociferous in his viewpoint that American politics is broken and how Biden isn't the fix but tbf of late I feel that there is more acknowledgment on his part that Trump is most definitely bad.

It seems that most peoples perceptions that Trump has to go and then we'll try and get back to normality is a flawed vision as he feels nothing will change. As is my wont I seem to have a foot in both camps. Certainly I feel Trump is a demagogue with no place in any form of high office. Whether the way forward for America under a democratic leadership will solve the problems, well I just don't know the answer to that particular conundrum. I hope we get the chance to find out.
 
Bigga said:
Do you not think it's possible to misspeak in the moment when a lot's going on? See, people give Biden a pass when he does it, so I'm not sure why this can't be afforded the other way and I am LOATHED to say this of either 'candidate'! I'm just playing the BM game.

For #45 to say this as a 'command' would be politic suicide, but to misspeak gives the MSM the knife to stuck it into him/ his run.
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No, i don't think he misspoke.

He was being asked to denounce White Supremacy. I mean, you shouldn't even need to be asked to do this, but seems he does. As a President, he should have made an impassioned plea, direct, and to camera, in a clear and concise way if he was truly against it. We all know he isn't, and time and time again he has proved this, and he likes to stoke to fires and cause division, and this is exactly what he's done... again.

He'll be more than happy to see the reaction from the Proud Boys on Social Media.

Guys a c*nt. And getting worse.
 
TheRemainsOfTheDave said:
Surely to be a good president all you have to do is make yourself clear. For some subjects it's difficult, for some not. This is one that is not.

That's how it works.
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The guy was thinking on his feet, trying to not piss off a voting block. I don't approve of this mindset, but I'm being objective.

Biden happened to say "Putin's puppy" when he meant to say "puppet". he happened to land on the right side of a sound bite.

Both misspoke.
 
It's quite sad that for most sane people someone like Biden is the far superior candidate.
What an indictment of modern day politics that it basically comes down to " but he aint Trump".
 
DrBlueBob said:
I doubt that is true. @Bigga has been most vociferous in his viewpoint that American politics is broken and how Biden isn't the fix but tbf of late I feel that there is more acknowledgment on his part that Trump is most definitely bad.

It seems that most peoples perceptions that Trump has to go and then we'll try and get back to normality is a flawed vision as he feels nothing will change. As is my wont I seem to have a foot in both camps. Certainly I feel Trump is a demagogue with no place in any form of high office. Whether the way forward for America under a democratic leadership will solve the problems, well I just don't know the answer to that particular conundrum. I hope we get the chance to find out.
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Thanks, Doc, I can work with that.
 
Bigga said:
Do you not think it's possible to misspeak in the moment when a lot's going on? See, people give Biden a pass when he does it, so I'm not sure why this can't be afforded the other way and I am LOATHED to say this of either 'candidate'! I'm just playing the BM game.

For #45 to say this as a 'command' would be politic suicide, but to misspeak gives the MSM the knife to stuck it into him/ his run.
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Of course it is possible he misspoke, its also far more possible given his attempts to continually paint the left as the bogeymen that he actually meant what he said.

I have no team in the USA election, the only politician there I have the remotest in common with is Bernie Sanders and even then he would be comfortably to the right of my political stance. The Americans have a choice between a UK equivalent of the Tory party and a further right wing Tory party. I mean Trump considered Obama a Communist ffs, which is typical of the Macarthyite scaremongering of anything remotely to the left of both of their parties right wing stances.
 
Bigga said:
The guy was thinking on his feet, trying to not piss off a voting block. I don't approve of this mindset, but I'm being objective.

Biden happened to say "Putin's puppy" when he meant to say "puppet". he happened to land on the right side of a sound bite.

Both misspoke.
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I don't agree it's acceptable.

Here's the scenario, you're the president of the USA and you've got armed militia on the streets and you don't want them there. There's no thinking to be done, it's simple. "I will not tolerate armed militia on the streets of the USA, whatever side you think you represent". That's it done, but he struggled to do that because, as you said, he doesn't want to piss off a voting block, i.e. the white supremacists.
 
I'm guessing the play was if Biden lets Trump talk over him, he's weak and Trump wins. If Biden loses his rag, he's temperamental and unstable and Trump wins. If Biden struggles to speak because interrupting someone with a stutter can cause them problems, Trump makes him look weak and Trump wins.

To his credit, Biden got it *absolutely* right. Just the right level of toughness without losing composure, and very few stutters or gaffes, and given Trump's ranting performance it *clearly* didn't go to script. And Trump gifted Biden's team with the Proud Boys thing. It won't have added much to Trump's base as only someone already on board could look at that dumpster fire and think it was a decent performance. It almost certainly has reassured some people that Biden is still sharp, can handle himself, looks presidential, and that re-electing Trump is an outright win for white supremacy.

Again, it's about that tipping point rather than the huge final nail in his coffin. People who voted for him will be like brexiters - it takes a lot to get over yourself and admit you were wrong rather than stick with it and hope you're eventually proven right. But every time a few more are chipped away, that's another safe GOP state bought into play, or another electoral college vote more likely. Biden needs as close as possible to a landslide to shut down Trump's rigged election claims before they get going, and all the travel is in that direction.
 
babyape said:
No, i don't think he misspoke.

He was being asked to denounce White Supremacy. I mean, you shouldn't even need to be asked to do this, but seems he does. As a President, he should have made an impassioned plea, direct, and to camera, in a clear and concise way if he was truly against it. We all know he isn't, and time and time again he has proved this, and he likes to stoke to fires and cause division, and this is exactly what he's done... again.

He'll be more than happy to see the reaction from the Proud Boys on Social Media.

Guys a c*nt. And getting worse.
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So, again, he's NOT a politician and therefore NOT a political president. He wings most of his speeches and I feel he was winging this response to the 'Pussy Boys'.

I, literally, think he caught himself mid-thought of saying "back" and chose "why" resulting in a halfway house as a response.

He's fucked up there and I think you'll see an amendment to that phrase over the next few days to weeks.
 
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