#8 | Ilkay Gündoğan - 2020/21 Performances

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thesting said:
No he doesn't, that's one of the biggest myths about him. He does not provide stability. Fernandinho does, even Rodri does to an extent.
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Exactly,when he is deployed in a defensive role,never have i thought we will be covered if the opposition break......they just run past him,and due to his less than enthusiastic desire,his complete lack of athleticism/powers of recovery,he can do nothing about it.
I cant see our defenders having any confidence in him whatsoever,which then adds further issues as i suspect they will try to compensate for his inadequacies.

The only time Ilkay becomes useful is when he plays further forward,where his defensive duties are secondary,and/or when the opposition sits back and allows us to control play.

Saying all that,i would love nothing more than for him to start on Saturday,be the player many describe,and prove me wrong.
 
FantasyIreland said:
Exactly,when he is deployed in a defensive role,never have i thought we will be covered if the opposition break......they just run past him,and due to his less than enthusiastic desire,his complete lack of athleticism/powers of recovery,he can do nothing about it.
I cant see our defenders having any confidence in him whatsoever,which then adds further issues as i suspect they will try to compensate for his inadequacies.

The only time Ilkay becomes useful is when he plays further forward,where his defensive duties are secondary,and/or when the opposition sits back and allows us to control play.

Saying all that,i would love nothing more than for him to start on Saturday,be the player many describe,and prove me wrong.
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Think you've made your mind up tbh. Far too many people get themselves too entrenched in a negative opinion about a player then cannot bring themselves to see any other point of view. See posts about Sterling too, where he is continually damned with faint praise despite being arguably our most important forward all the way through Pep's tenure.

Personally, I think if you find yourself being as negative as you are about a player who Pep has regularly picked in the most successful and most talented City team of all time, then it's probably you who are wrong and it's not a case of someone else proving themselves, but you refocussing your own 'opinion'.
 
BillyShears said:
Think you've made your mind up tbh. Far too many people get themselves too entrenched in a negative opinion about a player then cannot bring themselves to see any other point of view. See posts about Sterling too, where he is continually damned with faint praise despite being arguably our most important forward all the way through Pep's tenure.

Personally, I think if you find yourself being as negative as you are about a player who Pep has regularly picked in the most successful and most talented City team of all time, then it's probably you who are wrong and it's not a case of someone else proving themselves, but you refocussing your own 'opinion'.
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Its difficult to alter that opinion when the subject does nothing to warrant it.
With a player like Sterling,any negativity can be balanced with plenty of positivity.
 
Like an interview, once the interviewer's mind is made up, they spend the rest of the interview justifying their choice and ignoring the evidence. There are opinions here that are so extreme they cannot have any base in reality.
 
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oldius said:
Like an interview, once the interviewer's mind is made up, they spend the rest of the interview justifying theor choice and ignoring the evidence. There are opinions here that are so extreme they cannot have any base in reality.
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Forums/social media tend to bring out the worst aspects of this. Opinions are quickly polarised and people feel they need to be more and more extreme to 'prove' something. Hence you end up with comments like "he can't tackle" "he's not intelligent" "he can't pass forward" - all stuff that objectively is untrue, but is being characterised as not just fact, but obvious fact.

Will keep coming back to the same thing - whilst no manager is perfect and managers will often make mistakes, to suggest that Gundo is Pep's blind spot is IMO wildly incorrect.
 
thesting said:
No he doesn't, that's one of the biggest myths about him. He does not provide stability. Fernandinho does, even Rodri does to an extent.
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Rodri has singlehandedly uprooted the balance of our midfield, everything Pep does tactically in the middle is to accommodate Rodri rather than pick a midfield that dictates how we want to play. No one's comparing him to Fernandinho, but he can do a job there, as long as you don't put him with Rodri or Ferna against sides that sit back.

If you need an example of games he excels in watch both Madrid CL ties.
 
catalyst said:
Rodri has singlehandedly uprooted the balance of our midfield, everything Pep does tactically in the middle is to accommodate Rodri rather than pick a midfield that dictates how we want to play. No one's comparing him to Fernandinho, but he can do a job there, as long as you don't put him with Rodri or Ferna against sides that sit back.

If you need an example of games he excels in watch both Madrid CL ties.
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I'd take him with a pinch of salt pal,nearly all his posts are about Gungoden or slagging City off in general....
 
catalyst said:
Arguably his best games for us have come as a number 6 than a number 8, being the lone defensive midfielder, not with Rodri or Ferna. When the latter was injured in 18/19 he did exceptionally well to play that role, physicality is the only issue with him, but also largely manageable. He offers a lot of stability to our side that goes unnoticed, imo.
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there’s no ‘arguably’ about it. He’s absolutely useless as an 8, but good (albeit slow) as a 6. He moves the ball faster than Rodri in that position and with Laporte and Dias behind him he might be a better option than Rodri as a 6 in future.
 
A younger, more mobile version of Gundogan is what’s needed.
The problem is if that player isn’t out there then we stick with what we have and that’s not the end of the world for now.
 
Pablo1 said:
A younger, more mobile version of Gundogan is what’s needed.
The problem is if that player isn’t out there then we stick with what we have and that’s not the end of the world for now.
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Aouar is out there.

Some pretty funny stuff on the last few pages. Ranging from Pep picks him so he must be good (which kind of misses the point of the thread), to he’s better as an 8, he’s useless as an 8, he’s better as a 6, he’s useless as a 6.

For the record, he is useless as an 8 for us. He doesn’t have the confidence to receive the ball in tight areas anymore, so completely stunts our play by not showing for the ball.

Against average sides who won’t attack us, playing him alongside Rodri is just a complete waste of time. They’re too slow together and get ripped for pace on the counter.

Playing them together against decent sides who have a lot of the ball - Madrid, Liverpool etc can work if we’re just looking to retain possession and be cautious.

I personally think his best position is as a lone 6 with two pressing in front. He can do a very good job in there on occasions, although my preference is for Rodri doing that role moving forward.

So to summarise, Gundogan can be useful in certain roles in certain games. But Guardiola’s insistence on picking him in every minute of every game in the CL looks increasingly like an unfortunate confirmation-bias type blindspot.
 
Shaelumstash said:
Aouar is out there.

Some pretty funny stuff on the last few pages. Ranging from Pep picks him so he must be good (which kind of misses the point of the thread), to he’s better as an 8, he’s useless as an 8, he’s better as a 6, he’s useless as a 6.

For the record, he is useless as an 8 for us. He doesn’t have the confidence to receive the ball in tight areas anymore, so completely stunts our play by not showing for the ball.

Against average sides who won’t attack us, playing him alongside Rodri is just a complete waste of time. They’re too slow together and get ripped for pace on the counter.

Playing them together against decent sides who have a lot of the ball - Madrid, Liverpool etc can work if we’re just looking to retain possession and be cautious.

I personally think his best position is as a lone 6 with two pressing in front. He can do a very good job in there on occasions, although my preference is for Rodri doing that role moving forward.

So to summarise, Gundogan can be useful in certain roles in certain games. But Guardiola’s insistence on picking him in every minute of every game in the CL looks increasingly like an unfortunate confirmation-bias type blindspot.
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I look forward to you taking over as manager someday.

I miss the relegation battles
 
Shaelumstash said:
Aouar is out there.

Some pretty funny stuff on the last few pages. Ranging from Pep picks him so he must be good (which kind of misses the point of the thread), to he’s better as an 8, he’s useless as an 8, he’s better as a 6, he’s useless as a 6.

For the record, he is useless as an 8 for us. He doesn’t have the confidence to receive the ball in tight areas anymore, so completely stunts our play by not showing for the ball.

Against average sides who won’t attack us, playing him alongside Rodri is just a complete waste of time. They’re too slow together and get ripped for pace on the counter.

Playing them together against decent sides who have a lot of the ball - Madrid, Liverpool etc can work if we’re just looking to retain possession and be cautious.

I personally think his best position is as a lone 6 with two pressing in front. He can do a very good job in there on occasions, although my preference is for Rodri doing that role moving forward.

So to summarise, Gundogan can be useful in certain roles in certain games. But Guardiola’s insistence on picking him in every minute of every game in the CL looks increasingly like an unfortunate confirmation-bias type blindspot.
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My thoughts exactly- Completely agree
 
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