The Scottish Politics thread

[Coatigan]

Groundhog day on here.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Go on then educate me - for example what is Englands national dress?

Go on then educate me - for example what is Englands national dress?

What is Scotland’s, and where did it originate?

 

[mcfc1632]

Not being part of GB or the UK not sure my opinion matters on this, but giving my self a much needed sabbatical from the Brexit thread, I do have a passing interest in the Scottish people’s views on this.

I don’t profess to have a desire one way or another in the Scottish Independence debate and even relating it to Irish Unity is grasping at something idealistic or notional in my view.
Not that I don’t see it happening but I don’t believe Irish unity is something that should be rushed into and not something that should be passed with anything other than a clear majority perhaps in the region of 60/40 north and south.

Anyway back to Scotland.

Whatever your views on the union, I find some of the arguments being given by non Scots as being remarkably similar to the Remainer logic in the Brexit thread. Pointing out the difficulties that will happen and telling them that they haven’t thought this through.
Hard borders and all. Their economy, the lot.

There are huge difficulties in leaving a union of a few hundred years. Well who knew?

These arguments are being put forward by the leave side of Brexit however.

All very strange.

Anyway good luck Scotland, whatever you choose to do b

Good points

Far and away the most valid post on this thread was:

If you want to hear a case for brexit beautifully articulated ask a remainer to explain why Scotland should leave the UK.
If you want to hear a case for remain beautifully articulated ask a brexiteer why Scotland can't extricate itself successfully from the UK.

Just shows how we can all be guilty of bias, locked into narrow thinking and obstinate;-)

 

[blueparrot]

What is Scotland’s, and where did it originate?

You know what it is and who cares where it originated.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

You know what it is and who cares where it originated.

Yes I do, and no I don’t.
I answered someone who hates English nationalism, but admires everyone else’s, obviously with no sense of history.

 

[blueparrot]

Surely they should have another once in a generation referendum rather than just continual polls?

The once in a generation thing keeps being brought up by people that don’t live in Scotland, thanks but we don’t really care what was said then, or many of us don’t,things have changed.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

The once in a generation thing keeps being brought up by people that don’t live in Scotland, thanks but we don’t really care what was said then, or many of us don’t,things have changed.

The ongoing irony of this particular discussion is the fact that most of us would support your aims now.The laughable part is that when that is said, we get accused of breaking up the union, yet we didn’t start the process.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

The once in a generation thing keeps being brought up by people that don’t live in Scotland, thanks but we don’t really care what was said then, or many of us don’t,things have changed.

As I said just keep having them until you get what you want. Better than just whingeing about the last democratic expression not going the 'right' way.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

As I said just keep having them until you get what you want. Better than just whingeing about the last democratic expression not going the 'right' way.

Indeed, have another, no problem.

 

[blueparrot]

Isn’t that what democracy is, after losing a vote you carry on trying to convince people and when you think you try again. Or should people just give up and accept their lot even after a big change in circumstances and constitutional change.
Your free to think that if you like, but I for one don’t care, my minds been changed my children are old enough to have their say and would appreciate the chance to use that change of mind.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Isn’t that what democracy is, after losing a vote you carry on trying to convince people and when you think you try again. Or should people just give up and accept their lot even after a big change in circumstances and constitutional change.
Your free to think that if you like, but I for one don’t care, my minds been changed my children are old enough to have their say and would appreciate the chance to use that change of mind.

I believe we said you should have another and keep on having more until you are happy with the result. Democracy relies on losers consent, so you need to vote again and again until you get what you want.

 

[west didsblue]

Interesting that the Brexit supporting contingent are more than happy for Scotland to go their own way and appear not to be inclined at looking at the benefits of the UK Union, but prefer to look at the costs. Very similar to their attitude to Brexit. They even have the same view of Scotland as they do of the EU in that they believe that they need us more than we need them, whereas in reality both unions are better for all economically.

As for a second Indy ref, I wouldn’t normally support it just 6 years after the last one, but the basis of the last one for the unionist side was that Scotland would definitely remain part of the EU if it stayed as part of the UK. But that situation is no longer the case which means that the Scots have every reason to want another referendum recognising the new facts on the ground.

It would be a sad day for most British patriots if the 300 year old UK Union were to break up but the English nationalists don’t seem to give a toss.

 

[meltonblue]

If you want to hear a case for brexit beautifully articulated ask a remainer to explain why Scotland should leave the UK.
If you want to hear a case for remain beautifully articulated ask a brexiteer why Scotland can't extricate itself successfully from the UK.

If you added the term stupid before both remainer and leaver (of which there are quite a lot!) then I completely agree.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Interesting that the Brexit supporting contingent are more than happy for Scotland to go their own way and appear not to be inclined at looking at the benefits of the UK Union, but prefer to look at the costs. Very similar to their attitude to Brexit. They even have the same view of Scotland as they do of the EU in that they believe that they need us more than we need them, whereas in reality both unions are better for all economically.

As for a second Indy ref, I wouldn’t normally support it just 6 years after the last one, but the basis of the last one for the unionist side was that Scotland would definitely remain part of the EU if it stayed as part of the UK. But that situation is no longer the case which means that the Scots have every reason to want another referendum recognising the new facts on the ground.

It would be a sad day for most British patriots if the 300 year old UK Union were to break up but the English nationalists don’t seem to give a toss.

Interesting to see the remain contingent so eager for score independence too.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

If you added the term stupid before both remainer and leaver (of which there are quite a lot!) then I completely agree.

Have pity - most can only aspire to your level of intelligence, and we deserve your pity rather than scorn. You clearly have agent so it's a shame to see it squandered.

 

[meltonblue]

Have pity - most can only aspire to your level of intelligence, and we deserve your pity rather than scorn. You clearly have agent so it's a shame to see it squandered.

I wasn’t accusing you of being one of them, I was agreeing with your point. Surely you think it’s a stupid position for those that do think like that to have too, albeit for different reasons?

 

[west didsblue]

Interesting to see the remain contingent so eager for score independence too.

I’m not eager for it in the slightest. I think it will be a really sad day if it happens. It doesn’t mean that I don’t think that they should be allowed to decide again based on the new reality of being outside the EU.

 

[Fame Monster]

Isn’t that what democracy is, after losing a vote you carry on trying to convince people and when you think you try again. Or should people just give up and accept their lot even after a big change in circumstances and constitutional change.
Your free to think that if you like, but I for one don’t care, my minds been changed my children are old enough to have their say and would appreciate the chance to use that change of mind.

I don't think the near intractable problems with separatism are sinking in with a lot of the North British electorate and a small majority seem to want it no matter how damaging so I think the question of a new referendum is a question of when, not if.

We've got COVID to deal with for the next couple of years, Brexit will probably still be on the agenda for another 5 plus we've just voted in a UK Government with a big majority against another separatist referendum.

I think it will be 2027 at least before we have another referendum.

As a strong believer in unity and the Union, I'd personally wait until the next SNP nonce is uncovered and then hold it the day after his trial.

 

[west didsblue]

I don't think the near intractable problems with separatism are sinking in with a lot of the North British electorate and a small majority seem to want it no matter how damaging so I think the question of a new referendum is a question of when, not if.

We've got COVID to deal with for the next couple of years, Brexit will probably still be on the agenda for another 5 plus we've just voted in a UK Government with a big majority against another separatist referendum.

I think it will be 2027 at least before we have another referendum.

As a strong believer in unity and the Union, I'd personally wait until the next SNP nonce is uncovered and then hold it the day after his trial.

The same could be said about many of the South British electorate and Brexit.

 

[Fame Monster]

The same could be said about many of the South British electorate and Brexit.

True but at least the UK was a net contributor to the EU budget.

Now that the oil's run out, North Britain is a net receiver from the rest of the UK.

They really do have the deal of a lifetime in the UK. I just don't understand the clamour to go it alone.