Another new Brexit thread

[Vic]

Didn’t know anyone thought Johnson was an Italian goalkeeper!

Buffon would have done a better job as our PM. But who wouldn't?

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

That's one of the scary things about Brexit which seems to go unchallenged on here. Johnson is Brexit. He did more to make it happen than anyone else. Then he managed to get himself in a position where he himself is the one negotiating it and implementing it. He surrounded himself with all the other Brexit supporters and so in effect we have ended up with a Vote Leave Government (which is why we have so many dead, but that's another story).

There are some seriously stauch Brexiteers on here but they've all agreed as far as I can see that he's incompetent and his government are incompenent.

How can you people not join the final dots? This is not a man you can trust. Once Johnson and his cronies have been ousted from government who the fuck do you think is going to "own" Brexit, or to make it work? There is nobody else. It's theirs. Johnson and Brexit are one. The minute you decide that he's a bullshitter you admit to yourself that you got bullshitted.

I’ve stayed out of it for a while, but that’s the nub of how the other side of negotiations see it. Certainly here in Ireland.
Making distinctions between one part of your government or another is irrelevant. Why would it be relevant.
I know the argument being given but in the heal of the hunt you’ve made the last three years a complete waste of time and demonstrated an untrustworthiness that if I was a British citizen, I would be genuinely worried about for future ownership of the problem.

I haven’t a clue how this will pan out. I’m assuming there will be a deal as it has always made the most sense, but I do find our own position on the island of Ireland being somewhat at the mercy of a crowd in the UK government that would sell out NI at the drop of a hat, I have no doubt, although they make themselves out to be the Unionist party.

Our own government seem to try to remain very diplomatic in the language they use about our friends and closest neighbours and future relationships etc etc.
But in the minds of the public over here, serious damage is being done.

 

[Vic]

I’ve stayed out of it for a while, but that’s the nub of how the other side of negotiations see it. Certainly here in Ireland.
Making distinctions between one part of your government or another is irrelevant. Why would it be relevant.
I know the argument being given but in the heal of the hunt you’ve made the last three years a complete waste of time and demonstrated an untrustworthiness that if I was a British citizen, I would be genuinely worried about for future ownership of the problem.

I haven’t a clue how this will pan out. I’m assuming there will be a deal as it has always made the most sense, but I do find our own position on the island of Ireland being somewhat at the mercy of a crowd in the UK government that would sell out NI at the drop of a hat, I have no doubt, although they make themselves out to be the Unionist party.

Our own government seem to try to remain very diplomatic in the language they use about our friends and closest neighbours and future relationships etc etc.
But in the minds of the public over here, serious damage is being done.

The DUP's self-harm will be hard to recover from and history will remember Johnson as the man who lost England its last colony.

Another of those "change over the years" graphics has Ireland as having one of the highest GDP per capita in the world, and able to withstand the disruption of brexit though farming and fishing will be badly hit.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I’ve stayed out of it for a while, but that’s the nub of how the other side of negotiations see it. Certainly here in Ireland.
Making distinctions between one part of your government or another is irrelevant. Why would it be relevant.
I know the argument being given but in the heal of the hunt you’ve made the last three years a complete waste of time and demonstrated an untrustworthiness that if I was a British citizen, I would be genuinely worried about for future ownership of the problem.

I haven’t a clue how this will pan out. I’m assuming there will be a deal as it has always made the most sense, but I do find our own position on the island of Ireland being somewhat at the mercy of a crowd in the UK government that would sell out NI at the drop of a hat, I have no doubt, although they make themselves out to be the Unionist party.

Our own government seem to try to remain very diplomatic in the language they use about our friends and closest neighbours and future relationships etc etc.
But in the minds of the public over here, serious damage is being done.

I'm British with Irish descent (with a Scottish wife) and I'm ashamed and embarrassed about what's happened to my country. I'm fully aware that everyone else in the world thinks we are idiots, because a fair proportion of us are, like in the USA. But politics is cyclical and the sheer, eye-watering incompetence and duplicity of this Vote Leave government will ensure they won't last long. And, medium term we will be crawling back to the EU to rejoin, I have no doubt, though national self-interest alone. This could be through Labour or Conservative. I just pray this happens before the union breaks up. The cost of the "lost" years will be incalculable and people like me will have to lose our intense anger and frustration at the lying Little Englanders and self-interested rich who foisted it on the country (and the world), and the gullible who were taken in by them. And I hope that people like you will forgive us.

 

[west didsblue]

The DUP's self-harm will be hard to recover from and history will remember Johnson as the man who lost England its last colony.

Another of those "change over the years" graphics has Ireland as having one of the highest GDP per capita in the world, and able to withstand the disruption of brexit though farming and fishing will be badly hit.

The DUP's duplicity and opportunism will be enough to tip the balance for majority support for a united Ireland imo, which I can see happening in the next few years. The GFA has provision for an all Ireland vote to take place if it's clear that there's a good chance that a majority would vote for it on both sides of the border. Because of this GFA provision it would be much more difficult for a Westminster government to refuse it than it would be for them to refuse a new Scotland vote.

 

[jaseirai]

The DUP's self-harm will be hard to recover from and history will remember Johnson as the man who lost England its last colony.

Another of those "change over the years" graphics has Ireland as having one of the highest GDP per capita in the world, and able to withstand the disruption of brexit though farming and fishing will be badly hit.

Those GDP per capita numbers are nothing more than an illusion. The cash never enters the real economy.

Prepare for the rise of Irish Euroscepticism

Welcome to the wacky world of Irish national economic accounts. The official figures for Ireland’s tax-haven economy are so bizarre that they have been dubbed ‘leprechaun economics’ by Nobel Prize winning American economist Paul Krugman. And now the distorted figures which are used to measure...

www.spectator.co.uk

Another version, no paywall but more gammony.

Distorted Irish economy means high payments to the EU - Briefings For Britain

Ireland is the world’s largest tax haven, causing huge distortions to Irish national economic accounts. By greatly exaggerating the size of the Irish economy this leads to Ireland paying much larger contributions to the EU budget than is warranted by an economy of its size. Irish per capita...

briefingsforbritain.co.uk

Similar articles have been in the Irish Times but their paywall has been upgraded recently.

 

[Vic]

Those GDP per capita numbers are nothing more than an illusion. The cash never enters the real economy.

Prepare for the rise of Irish Euroscepticism

Welcome to the wacky world of Irish national economic accounts. The official figures for Ireland’s tax-haven economy are so bizarre that they have been dubbed ‘leprechaun economics’ by Nobel Prize winning American economist Paul Krugman. And now the distorted figures which are used to measure...

www.spectator.co.uk

Another version, no paywall but more gammony.

Distorted Irish economy means high payments to the EU - Briefings For Britain

Ireland is the world’s largest tax haven, causing huge distortions to Irish national economic accounts. By greatly exaggerating the size of the Irish economy this leads to Ireland paying much larger contributions to the EU budget than is warranted by an economy of its size. Irish per capita...

briefingsforbritain.co.uk

Similar articles have been in the Irish Times but their paywall has been upgraded recently.

Thank you for explaining - I could have googled first - and (I think this came up recently) tax havens presumably see overall benefit in doing it. GDP is an odd measure anyway (e.g. unless making a mess affects production, clearing up a mess boosts GDP) and (googling) it seems foreign-owned entities in Ireland have better productivity than "local" companies. Plus Apple having 6000 jobs in Cork alone suggests some real impact on the real economy.

I wouldn't want to distract the thread onto tax havens generally, but in the present context of this thread I'm not sure why merely having to pay higher EU contributions (presumably paid out of the benefits of being a tax haven) would increase eurospecticism in Ireland. Being a tax haven is a domestic policy, the EU is opposed (which I appreciate would not stop some people "blaming the EU"), plus the same people might well be modelling the UK outside the EU as tax haven Singapore-on-Thames (above Ireland in the GDP per capita list).

 

[jaseirai]

Thank you for explaining - I could have googled first - and (I think this came up recently) tax havens presumably see overall benefit in doing it. GDP is an odd measure anyway (e.g. unless making a mess affects production, clearing up a mess boosts GDP) and (googling) it seems foreign-owned entities in Ireland have better productivity than "local" companies. Plus Apple having 6000 jobs in Cork alone suggests some real impact on the real economy.

I wouldn't want to distract the thread onto tax havens generally, but in the present context of this thread I'm not sure why merely having to pay higher EU contributions (presumably paid out of the benefits of being a tax haven) would increase eurospecticism in Ireland. Being a tax haven is a domestic policy, the EU is opposed (which I appreciate would not stop some people "blaming the EU"), plus the same people might well be modelling the UK outside the EU as tax haven Singapore-on-Thames (above Ireland in the GDP per capita list).

The author is just speculating about Irish scepticism bit. I’ve no idea whether it will or not, and it would be decades away anyway.
The tax schemes should be stopped but no-one seems to be able to do it. It’s really an American problem that’s unlikely to be fixed.

I can vaguely remember that the bloke who came up with GDP said something along the lines of “It’s a pretty shit measure but it’s the best I can do for now”. That was 80 or so years ago.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

The author is just speculating about Irish scepticism bit. I’ve no idea whether it will or not, and it would be decades away anyway.
The tax schemes should be stopped but no-one seems to be able to do it. It’s really an American problem that’s unlikely to be fixed.

I can vaguely remember that the bloke who came up with GDP said something along the lines of “It’s a pretty shit measure but it’s the best I can do for now”. That was 80 or so years ago.

Our Gross National Product measures neither our wit nor our courage, neither our wisdom nor our learning. It measures everything except that which makes life worthwhile - Bobby Kennedy, University of Kansas , 1968

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

RCVS has said round half the veterinary surgeons registering to practise in the UK each year are from overseas – mostly the EU. Europeans are particularly prevalent in public health roles like the Government Veterinary Services. In the meat hygiene sector, some estimates put the number of veterinary surgeons who graduate overseas at 95%. And these people – the people who look after our pets, who check our food – are feeling increasingly uncomfortable in this country.
This means that by supporting brexit we are literally killing kittens. I'm not sure how many kittens have died so far, but it wouldn't surprise me if it correlates strongly with leave votes and posts supporting leave on here if you crunch the numbers.

Cant run an abattoir without a vet .

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Cant run an abattoir without a vet .

Indeed. The nation will be a vast swathe of lorry parks, dead kittens and farm animals starving to death because we can't import feed and there is no way to slaughter them. By easter vast sections of the UK could be like Ethiopia in 1983, but with worse weather obviously.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Indeed. The nation will be a vast swathe of lorry parks, dead kittens and farm animals starving to death because we can't import feed and there is no way to slaughter them. By easter vast sections of the UK could be like Ethiopia in 1983, but with worse weather obviously.

at least we will get a good concert in the summer.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Future of UK aerospace 'in doubt' without EU deal

UK aerospace will lose out to rivals without a deal on the mutual recognition of parts, says industry body.

www.bbc.co.uk

Whoops .....

 

[jaseirai]

Future of UK aerospace 'in doubt' without EU deal

UK aerospace will lose out to rivals without a deal on the mutual recognition of parts, says industry body.

www.bbc.co.uk

Whoops .....

I work in the aerospace sector and it’s being eviscerated already. Rolls won’t survive in their current form for much longer. This issue is barely a ripple in a tsunami.

 

[Vic]

Sounds like people might be waking up to things like no vets and problems with air industry licensing.

Project fear? Don't tell me these are surprises....

Who's going to supervise that?

Foreign veterinary surgeons?

"Revealed: Britain faces vet shortage after Brexit because nine in 10 are now EU nationals"
https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...ritain-shortage-vets-leaves-EU-Lords-warn/amp

(August 2019)

Common sense, you say....

The CAA doesn't do now what EASA does, although they say they're ready: "to take on new functions, some of which are currently delivered by EASA. The CAA has implemented plans to fulfil these functions should they be needed following the end of the transition period. As an example, the CAA has created the capability required for the UK to fulfil State of Design responsibilities independently of EASA should that be needed." (At a cost - to whom? - of having to replicate just for the UK what EASA now does with the costs shared between all participating countries.)

Here's the CAA's list of what they assume happens if we have no deal:

• The UK leaves the EU at 11 pm on 31 January 2020.
• Through the EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018, all European aviation laws are adopted at the point of exit. Changes will be made to ensure those laws are legally operable.
• The UK continues to mirror EU aviation regulations for at least a two-year period.
• The UK withdraws completely from the EASA system on 1 January 2021, meaning that the CAA will need to fulfil regulatory functions without having EASA as a technical agent and without having access to EASA and EU-level capabilities.
• The UK is no longer included in EU-level Bilateral Aviation Safety Agreements. New UK agreements will come into effect.
• There is no mutual recognition agreement between the EU and the UK for aviation licences, approvals and certificates.
• UK-issued licences and approvals (issued when the UK was an EASA member) will continue to have validity under UK law but only those contained in EU Regulation 2019/494 will continue to have validity within the EU system, as defined by that regulation.
• The EU treats UK airlines as Third Country Operators.
• All licences issued by the CAA under EU legislation, and all type approval certificates and third country approvals issued by EASA under EU legislation, will continue to have validity under UK law, provided they were effective immediately before 1 January 2021.
• The UK has minimised additional requirements for licences, approvals and certificates from EU aviation and aerospace companies providing services and goods in the UK.

You may call it freedom and independence. I call it bureaucratic and costly duplication of regulation.

(February 2020)

 

[west didsblue]

I work in the aerospace sector and it’s being eviscerated already. Rolls won’t survive in their current form for much longer. This issue is barely a ripple in a tsunami.

Or arguably it's the last thing the industry needs with all the other challenges it faces.

It's more than a ripple in a tsunami. At the moment new aircraft orders have more or less ground to a halt and if there's additional certification and logistics costs on top of the pandemic impact, it puts UK operations even more at risk.

But as long as we get a good deal on fish who gives a fuck seems to be the view of our ace negotiating team. Even though it is 50 times more important to the economy (maybe a bit less due to the pandemic induced downturn).

 

[jaseirai]

Or arguably it's the last thing the industry needs with all the other challenges it faces.

It's more than a ripple in a tsunami. At the moment new aircraft orders have more or less ground to a halt and if there's additional certification and logistics costs on top of the pandemic impact, it puts UK operations even more at risk.

But as long as we get a good deal on fish who gives a fuck seems to be the view of our ace negotiating team. Even though it is 50 times more important to the economy (maybe a bit less due to the pandemic induced downturn).

All new commercial aircraft and most components are sold at a loss so new orders won’t help in the short term. They make money only when they undergo service and charge this revenue against liabilities built up during development and production.
No flights means no cash and big trouble.

 

[west didsblue]

All new commercial aircraft and most components are sold at a loss so new orders won’t help in the short term. They make money only when they undergo service and charge this revenue against liabilities built up during development and production.
No flights means no cash and big trouble.

As someone who also works in the industry that is a rather simplistic view and not strictly true. It all depends on how you work it out and the accounting is very complex.
No flights means no requirement for new aircraft which means production lines grinding to a halt and overheads not covered by sales.

 

[journolud]

RCVS has said round half the veterinary surgeons registering to practise in the UK each year are from overseas – mostly the EU. Europeans are particularly prevalent in public health roles like the Government Veterinary Services. In the meat hygiene sector, some estimates put the number of veterinary surgeons who graduate overseas at 95%. And these people – the people who look after our pets, who check our food – are feeling increasingly uncomfortable in this country.
This means that by supporting brexit we are literally killing kittens. I'm not sure how many kittens have died so far, but it wouldn't surprise me if it correlates strongly with leave votes and posts supporting leave on here if you crunch the numbers.

Are you having to provide your own material to mock now or is this in response to another poster? What's your source.

Except this isn't really about killing a few kittens though is it? It looks as though it could be important. For all that remainers get accused of seeking out bad news about brexit seems to be a bit of a trend which you encourage of belittling genuine s.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

All new commercial aircraft and most components are sold at a loss so new orders won’t help in the short term. They make money only when they undergo service and charge this revenue against liabilities built up during development and production.
No flights means no cash and big trouble.

The double whammy of no vets and no aerospace industry will pretty much take the commercial aerospace industry back to the 1930's except with no vets. Many of those currently employed in aerospace are currently also pet owners so it's a double-whammy for the animals. Coupled with lower food standards it looks like the plan is for us to eat our pets in 2021 but no one in govt is prepared to tell us this and the hard brexit types don't seem to care.