Our attack - what's off?

Nonsense,while another quality striker is needed,Jesus is plenty capable.

The problem lies elsewhere,as ive mentioned above.
I'm afraid whilst Jesus may well be capable he is no where near consistent enough and i do not think he has shown enough over the last few years to be considered a replacement for Aguero if such a thing even exists. Good backup striker but far too hit and miss.
 
Two injured strikers, Sterling off the boil completely, KdB as the player supposedly creating 'million' chances hit rock bottom of his form, Merlin doesn't live here anymore, Riyad and Bernardo turned into pure luxury players playing futsal in their own world (what does Bernardo actually do in our team, anybody's guess?), Foden is like an atom, he is here/he is not here, Gundogan is not able to stay near the box where he is able to do something, because he's been constantly dragged back to sort out things when we are pressed, counter attack became a far fetched idea like universal basic income, we all know it would sort out a few things, but we are unable to execute it, Pep and his system being incompatible with any possibility we actually shoot on goal from further than 8 yards and so on....
It took 4 pages for a Bluemooner to note the biggest hindrance that we have been missing our main two strikers.

Another factor is our lack of aerial threat at set pieces that could earn us a few more soft goals.
 
This is being debated in various different threads and I thought it deserves its own one. We've been known as one of the best, if not THE best, attacking side in the premier over the last few seasons. However last year we saw our attack stutter at certain times and it seems that trend has continued into this season. We are still more than capable of beating a poor side by 4 or 5 goals on our day but against the more organised and better teams we seem to falter. Arguably Liverpool and Chelsea now seem more clinical in attack than us.

So why is that? Why do we seem devoid of ideas going forward? Why have we lost our fluidity and dynamism? Is it fitness? Player injuries disrupting our forward three? Have teams become accustomed in how to defend against us? Or is it something else?

Thoughts blues.
Our defence was a shambles meaning we had to score 3 to win so we bought Dias and changed to a more cautious approach which means we create far less chances but play less expressive football. I preferred the previous way but you can’t have it both ways I suppose. I just think we could still use the current tactic with only one of Rodri/gunda playing and still be tight. Maybe that’ll happen when pep gets over his gundog and Rodri playing together obsession. Anyway we’ll score for fun in January when Lionel comes ;))
 
Pep is trying to achieve a better balance between defence and attack. We are looking much more solid at the back but doing that has reduced creativity a bit. This will improve over time. We are taking less risks, yesterday was proof of that. We could have played a midfield of Bernardo, Foden, and KDB..but we probably would have lost.
I think this strategy is 100 per cent the correct approach and will bring us more trophies, possibly even the Champions League. We can all judge at the end of the season but, for now, I remain confident. More than ever before this season is a marathon not a sprint.
 
Foden is either the David Silva replacement or he's not?

Pep must start him every week if he is and drop one of Rodri or Gundo, or the team will continue to get fewer looks at goal because the entire onus is on KDB to unpick the lock.

Sterling has no triangle to link inside with on the edge of the 18-yard-box, so he drives inside and tries to get a shot off.

Silva would always make sure there could be a join up.
 
Whole host of issues, most of them covered.
Losing Silva obviously - not just his ability to pick a pass, but also, probably more so, his skill at getting into space ahead of the ball.
Sterling playing on the left is also a major factor - irrespective of what he himself might think, he’s far more effective for us from the right, where his movement is world class and he can properly stretch teams. Saw it in the champions league game the other week - baffling that he‘s still on the left. Generally, we have nowhere near enough dynamic ((c) Mark Hughes) movement ahead of the ball.
Overall setup/shape is an issue. Too much emphasis now on the fullbacks to provide attacking width outside the ‚inverted‘ wingers. Cancelo is obviously a (very) decent player going forward, but even he doesn‘t pose a sustained attacking threat. Huge gaps between centre halves, fullbacks and the midfield makes us much less effective both in terms of winning the ball back and moving it quickly. For all his very obvious limitations, we still look a better team with Zinchenko at left back, tucking into midfield with Rodri/Gundogan. Gives us more control, and allows the left-sided ‚no. 8‘ to play much higher up the pitch - which in turn means we‘re not so reliant on absolutely everything going through De Bruyne.
And add in the various injuries, tiredness and struggles with form ...
 
Simple answer. Fernandinho.

He used to whip the front five left and right, like Messala driving his horses onward in Ben Hur, and if anyone did manage to beat the initial press he'd be on hand himself to shove a serrated hub cap through their spokes and ride his chariot over their broken bodies for good measure. That dynamism is completely absent from both Gunders and Plodri, who play everything sideways and backwards, who never feature in the opposition penalty area, and who don't have the legs to get back and cover if we lose possession (I lost count of the times that Salah dropped 10 yards off Dias and Laporte yesterday and was able to receive the ball and turn without any City midfielder being within 5 light years of him. It was bloody painful to watch. The fact that there are 2 of them as well (Rodri & Gundog) means we are always short-handed going forward and that our attacking players find themselves isolated. How Pep doesn't see it is beyond me. 2nd half once the tempo slowed down they were fine, but that first 30 minutes was an absolute shambles and we were lucky not to be 2 or 3 goals adrift

Absolute nonsense.

How many times have we played Liverpool and been battered for the opening 20 minutes with Fernandinho in the side? The answer is certainly not zero.

Making out that Fernandinho in his prime would magically fix all our problems is hopefully at best and to think 36 year old Fernandinho would do it is just delusional.
 
I've only read a few pages but I've noted Sterling is clearly not good enough and Jesus cant be relied upon???? Am i missing something?

Well that's put them up for sale and see which teams deem them not good enough or reliable.

For me the problem lies at the double pivot, I'm far from a tactical genius but i find the double pivot encourages a lot more sideways passing between CB's and holding mid, then Gundogan sits just floating waiting to play it simple or chip an attempted ball forward (think Gundogan is an excellent footballer btw but doenst effect the game enough)

We need more running (Foden), drive (Foden), creativity (Foden), movement (Foden) & goal threat who goes beyond the striker (Foden). Remove Gundo and find someone to do the above. And get sterling on the right.

Oh and our two main strikers have been injured, doesnt help.

We will be fine and be there or thereabouts at the end of season. We will score goals again i do believe and its great to see us have a backline that looks as though can be relied upon for the majority of the time.
 
our midfield when it contains both Rodri and Gundogan together - completely nullifies our attack and slows it down

neither gundogan or Rodri (esp) are creative -lots of ball retention with sideways and backwards passes - Gundogan occasionally tries something but not often..

These two are now our biggest issue and they affect the team both creatively and defensively

Inverted wingers are an issue with no pace outside to stretch the pitch and make it wider....players always coming inside into heavy traffic and packed defences.

Liverpool played a front 4 against us - direct quick players all of them supported by Henderson and GW who are both extremely mobile and box to box players - compare that to the two we have.

This should be our starting 11/shape

Ederson

Back 4

Rodri or Gundogan (BUT NOT BOTH)

KDB plus one of B. Silva or Foden

front 3 (not B.sliva wide on the right and preferably not Mahrez). A front 3 containing any of the following :G. Jesus, Kun, Torres, Sterling

For me our best 11 (in a one off game) definitely contains the following

------------------Ederson----------------

Walker-------Dias---- ----Laporte--------- Ake/Cancello

--------------------Rodri/Ferna-------------------------------

------------KDB------------ B.Sliva/Foden----

Sterling/Torres -----Aguero/Jesus------- Jesus/Torres

Mahrez and Gundogan dont get anywhere near a best starting 11 imho especialy against eh likes of Liverpool, Spurs, Chelski, Utd, Leicester
 
Foden is either the David Silva replacement or he's not?

Pep must start him every week if he is and drop one of Rodri or Gundo, or the team will continue to get fewer looks at goal because the entire onus is on KDB to unpick the lock.

Sterling has no triangle to link inside with on the edge of the 18-yard-box, so he drives inside and tries to get a shot off.

Silva would always make sure there could be a join up.

I don't believe Pep will play both Rodri and Gundo together regularly, at least not in the longer term. There are games where they will feature where he is more concerned about control of the game, like yesterday and perhaps UCL.

Against weaker English sides, he will put a more attacking central midfielder in i.e. Bernie or Phil.

He's not simply going to pitch Phil in every game or just play him in one role.
 
Our defence was a shambles meaning we had to score 3 to win so we bought Dias and changed to a more cautious approach which means we create far less chances but play less expressive football. I preferred the previous way but you can’t have it both ways I suppose. I just think we could still use the current tactic with only one of Rodri/gunda playing and still be tight. Maybe that’ll happen when pep gets over his gundog and Rodri playing together obsession. Anyway we’ll score for fun in January when Lionel comes ;))

I don't think answers why we seem devoid of ideas sometimes when we attack. We just don't have the synergy, fluidity or clinical touch we once had.
 
I've only read a few pages but I've noted Sterling is clearly not good enough and Jesus cant be relied upon???? Am i missing something?

Well that's put them up for sale and see which teams deem them not good enough or reliable.

For me the problem lies at the double pivot, I'm far from a tactical genius but i find the double pivot encourages a lot more sideways passing between CB's and holding mid, then Gundogan sits just floating waiting to play it simple or chip an attempted ball forward (think Gundogan is an excellent footballer btw but doenst effect the game enough)

We need more running (Foden), drive (Foden), creativity (Foden), movement (Foden) & goal threat who goes beyond the striker (Foden). Remove Gundo and find someone to do the above. And get sterling on the right.

Oh and our two main strikers have been injured, doesnt help.

We will be fine and be there or thereabouts at the end of season. We will score goals again i do believe and its great to see us have a backline that looks as though can be relied upon for the majority of the time.

Of course Sterling is not good enough; how could he be when he's simply the player in the league that a couple of weeks back had scored the most goals in all competitions since August 2019. I think he might still be but Kane could have caught him.

Oh and he has done that mostly playing from the left.
 
The midfield cloggers and no natural width from our full backs or the wingers

If it’s not coming through De Bruyne we struggle to create anything
Spot on fella, Kev popped up on the left right & central trying to link up midfield to attack, as we’ve seen in other games this season, it was crying out for him to stay in the middle or just off the right (as the goal showed) there was space in front of Henderson & Wijnaldum and in behind for him to exploit, but he’s off doing other people’s jobs, would like to see more of the Phil/Ferran link up on the left, Joao showed yesterday he can defend when called upon, Kyle then has an out ball to Raz on the right and can come inside to Kev, both flanks have pace guile & penetration
 
Absolute nonsense.

How many times have we played Liverpool and been battered for the opening 20 minutes with Fernandinho in the side? The answer is certainly not zero.

Making out that Fernandinho in his prime would magically fix all our problems is hopefully at best and to think 36 year old Fernandinho would do it is just delusional.

1. I didn't say that I thought 36 year old Fernandinho could perform the role described - I pretty obviously meant peak-era Fernandinho.
2. I never said, or even insinuated, that Liverpool had never torn into us before.....although that was unquestionably the worst 30 minutes they've put us through in recent years at the Etihad.
3. This thread isn't confined to yesterday's game. It embraces a growing number of performances over the course of the last 18 months (11 defeats last season, most of which featured the Rodri/Gundogan double act).
4. Again, very obviously there are other factors at play - loss of Sane and Silva, etc - but the demise of Fernandinho has been the biggest in my opinion.
5. It's a forum full of opinions, and describing someone lamenting the loss of an acknowledged (by plenty of people and pundits) key midfield component, as delusional, is frankly, erm, delusional.
 
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Sell Rodri, Bernardo and Mahrez, replace with Kante, Grealish and Haaland. We'd be unstoppable.
 
I've only read a few pages but I've noted Sterling is clearly not good enough and Jesus cant be relied upon???? Am i missing something?

Well that's put them up for sale and see which teams deem them not good enough or reliable.

For me the problem lies at the double pivot, I'm far from a tactical genius but i find the double pivot encourages a lot more sideways passing between CB's and holding mid, then Gundogan sits just floating waiting to play it simple or chip an attempted ball forward (think Gundogan is an excellent footballer btw but doenst effect the game enough)

We need more running (Foden), drive (Foden), creativity (Foden), movement (Foden) & goal threat who goes beyond the striker (Foden). Remove Gundo and find someone to do the above. And get sterling on the right.

Oh and our two main strikers have been injured, doesnt help.

We will be fine and be there or thereabouts at the end of season. We will score goals again i do believe and its great to see us have a backline that looks as though can be relied upon for the majority of the time.

The problem is we didn't replace Silva.

Several journalists have relayed that 3 or 4 times this season Foden has basically been given a bollocking by Pep or KDB or someone else for not keeping hold of the ball, and he's given the ball away a lot, carelessly, that's why he can't play the role Silva did. He's too attack focused, he doesn't know how when to just calm down and restart an attack instead of forcing the ball and losing possession.

So then there's a choice between Bernardo or Gundogan as KDB's partner, and Bernardo has played awfully for more than a year now and has never looked good playing next to KDB. Gundogan doesn't have the energy to do the defensive work.


This problem is the consequence of Pep taking 4 years to bring Foden through. He doesn't have the experience and maturity to play Silva's role and it could be another 100 games in that position before he does.
 
We used to attack with 5 or more. Now it's pretty much just 4 - of which KDB and Sterling are well out of form, Mahrez doesn't fit in, Torres still settling in and Aguero/Jesus not being fully fit. We've gone from one of the most positive and free-scoring teams into a team that really looks quite blunt. Silva has been a loss but we've played well enough without him before.

I understand that he has used the extra midfield body to help make us more solid at the back but it has been at the expense of our attacking play and we now seem unable to really dominate games. I think if we put Bernardo/Foden in for one of Gundogan/Rodri it would give us more options going forward and it might take some pressure off KDB and Sterling.
 

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