2020 US Elections

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1.618034 said:
I thought it had to go through the State's courts and isn't the Inauguration set for Jan 20th by law? What does the law say about the loser just refusing to leave?


I get that's what happens in law as of Jan 20th, but he will forever more have the title of President, and for him and his rabid/armed base he still will be.

I think we (non-Trumpers) underestimate how dangerous this situation is. On Newsnight last night they were speaking to his heavily armed supporters outside a counting centre, who were talking openly about Civil War if it's "stolen from him".

If he's still holding on by then, the shit will hit the fan. It might even happen before that.

My relief of the last few days is evaporating fast.
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Dude, you are talking about a bunch of idiot cowards so fucking frightened they are carrying enormous guns around to make up for their itty bitty schlongs and/or inability to live up to their fathers' expectations of their manhood.

They are the LAST fuckers who will start a revolution. When confronted by others with guns (and I assure you, the military/industrial complex wants Trump gone) they will wilt like the flowers they are.

Guys with guns like this only use them when they snap, and then they go after children, and unarmed crowds and concerts and nightclubs, and only if they're willing to go out with them. These people don't have that kind of a death wish.

Trump isn't President on 1/21. Period. Even if he'd won, he'd be the "new" President. Same with Pence. The Presidential Succession Act of 1947 would appear to suggest that it becomes the Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, who HAS been duly elected. But there is some confusion on that score, certainly.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
Dude, you are talking about a bunch of idiot cowards so fucking frightened they are carrying enormous guns around to make up for their itty bitty schlongs and/or inability to live up to their fathers' expectations of their manhood.

They are the LAST fuckers who will start a revolution. When confronted by others with guns (and I assure you, the military/industrial complex wants Trump gone) they will wilt like the flowers they are.

Guys with guns like this only use them when they snap, and then they go after children, and unarmed crowds and concerts and nightclubs, and only if they're willing to go out with them. These people don't have that kind of a death wish.
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Couldn't agree more about this. The vast majority that parade around with their massive Machine Guns, full camo gear, thinking they look the part, will have absolutely no intention of ever firing said massive weapon. Absolute shithouses who lack something in their lives somewhere.

I dare say they'll be the odd loon. But this argument of civil war, not for me. Unless a Twitter War counts... Then, they'll wage that all year long...
 
babyape said:
Couldn't agree more about this. The vast majority that parade around with their massive Machine Guns, full camo gear, thinking they look the part, will have absolutely no intention of ever firing said massive weapon. Absolute shithouses who lack something in their lives somewhere.

I dare say they'll be the odd loon. But this argument of civil war, not for me. Unless a Twitter War counts... Then, they'll wage that all year long...
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Yeah, who exactly is the other side they're waging war against anyhow?

This is all rage against the dying of the light. They have 70-odd days to create as much fear, confusion and anxiety as possible in average Americans and in the majority who voted for Biden before they then become far less powerful. And it's less time than that if they lose the Senate. Some of this is mollify Trump, still beloved by their base, and half is to get out the base in Georgia, which they believe they can do by mollifying Trump.
 
kaz7 said:
He will be the next one to get ill, taking his mask of indoors but wears it out doors , typical brain dead republican
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This ones on Glue
 

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SWP's back said:
You’re welcome to your own opinion but I stand by my previous post. It’s a cult.
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One thing that has troubled me about all this are the resonances that these latest developments have with the behaviour of paranoid cult leaders (Jim Jones, Shoko Asahara) and their followers in the case of some of the violent and millennial new religious movements, such as the People's Temple, or Aum Shinrikyo.

Here is a paragraph from a chapter on religion and violence in the book I am reading right now, together with my own interpolations on how they might relate to Trump and his more extreme supporters:

"Movements in their earlier periods of development are fired up with enthusiasm about having found a new truth or brought new truths to the world ["It's all fake news!”] while offering world salvation at a time of crisis ['Drain the swamp!' 'Make America great again'!]. They thus tend to be extremely zealous in their pursuit of their spiritual mission, often reacting angrily to any slight or opposition they face from external authorities and regarding any criticism as 'evidence' of the corruption of the world they are trying to change or save. Aum Shinrikyo, for example, saw hostile media criticism in this light...

Other factors that have been seen as making such groups potentially violent include their emphasis on a charismatic leader perceived as a messiah with a mission of bringing inalienable truth to a corrupt world in order to transform it. Their communal nature often allows such views to develop unchallenged, creating a powerful internalized group mentality that sees all external forces as wrong and hostile, while reinforcing the views of the movement that they are the chosen agents of spiritual change. Such groups too, have commonly had an apocalyptic orientation, in which they expect dramatic and catastrophic events to occur [under Biden the USA will become like Venezuela]."

Many of the characteristics commonly attributed to violent manifestations of religion (e.g. especially in relation to Salafi-jihadism in the case of Islam) can also be seen in nationalism, which, of course, portrays notions such as being willing to die for one's country as noble and even sacred acts.

Anyway, I do hope that Trump's more militant, tooled-up followers aren't thinking along similar lines and that a SWAT team won't eventually be needed to get Trump out of the White House after some kind of Waco-type stand-off.

Moving on to a consideration of Trump’s wider voting constituency, Arlie Russell Hochschild has written a book about this. It’s an ethnographic study so what she did was simply talk to Trump sympathisers about their concerns. Here is a link to an older article which summarises some of her findings.

www.motherjones.com

Special report: I spent 5 years with some of Trump's biggest fans. Here's what they won't tell you.

How Donald Trump took a narrative of unfairness and twisted it to his advantage.
www.motherjones.com www.motherjones.com

The key paragraph is this one:

‘The deep story of the right goes like this:

You are patiently standing in the middle of a long line stretching toward the horizon, where the American Dream awaits. But as you wait, you see people cutting in line ahead of you. Many of these line-cutters are black—beneficiaries of affirmative action or welfare. Some are career-driven women pushing into jobs they never had before. Then you see immigrants, Mexicans, Somalis, the Syrian refugees yet to come. As you wait in this unmoving line, you’re being asked to feel sorry for them all. You have a good heart. But who is deciding who you should feel compassion for? Then you see President Barack Hussein Obama waving the line-cutters forward. He’s on their side. In fact, isn’t he a line-cutter too? How did this fatherless black guy pay for Harvard? As you wait your turn, Obama is using the money in your pocket to help the line-cutters. He and his liberal backers have removed the shame from taking. The government has become an instrument for redistributing your money to the undeserving. It’s not your government anymore; it’s theirs.‘
 
bellbuzzer said:
the ingredients are all in place , just needs a spark to kick it all off, an army of heavily- armed racist zealots led by a truly evil ruthless monster will take no prisoners. It could happen.......
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I do think however when met with the force of the army and state troops, that will not IMO back this coup, they'll piss themselves.
Could be ugly for a while though.
 
ZenHalfTimeCrock said:
One thing that has troubled me about all this are the resonances that these latest developments have with the behaviour of paranoid cult leaders (Jim Jones, Shoko Asahara) and their followers in the case of some of the violent and millennial new religious movements, such as the People's Temple, or Aum Shinrikyo.

Here is a paragraph from a chapter on religion and violence in the book I am reading right now, together with my own interpolations on how they might relate to Trump and his more extreme supporters:

"Movements in their earlier periods of development are fired up with enthusiasm about having found a new truth or brought new truths to the world ["It's all fake news!”] while offering world salvation at a time of crisis ['Drain the swamp!' 'Make America great again'!]. They thus tend to be extremely zealous in their pursuit of their spiritual mission, often reacting angrily to any slight or opposition they face from external authorities and regarding any criticism as 'evidence' of the corruption of the world they are trying to change or save. Aum Shinrikyo, for example, saw hostile media criticism in this light...

Other factors that have been seen as making such groups potentially violent include their emphasis on a charismatic leader perceived as a messiah with a mission of bringing inalienable truth to a corrupt world in order to transform it. Their communal nature often allows such views to develop unchallenged, creating a powerful internalized group mentality that sees all external forces as wrong and hostile, while reinforcing the views of the movement that they are the chosen agents of spiritual change. Such groups too, have commonly had an apocalyptic orientation, in which they expect dramatic and catastrophic events to occur [under Biden the USA will become like Venezuela]."

Many of the characteristics commonly attributed to violent manifestations of religion (e.g. especially in relation to Salafi-jihadism in the case of Islam) can also be seen in nationalism, which, of course, portrays notions such as being willing to die for one's country as noble and even sacred acts.

Anyway, I do hope that Trump's more militant, tooled-up followers aren't thinking along similar lines and that a SWAT team won't eventually be needed to get Trump out of the White House after some kind of Waco-type stand-off.

Moving on to a consideration of Trump’s wider voting constituency, Arlie Russell Hochschild has written a book about this. It’s an ethnographic study so what she did was simply talk to Trump sympathisers about their concerns. Here is a link to an older article which summarises some of her findings.

www.motherjones.com

Special report: I spent 5 years with some of Trump's biggest fans. Here's what they won't tell you.

How Donald Trump took a narrative of unfairness and twisted it to his advantage.
www.motherjones.com www.motherjones.com

The key paragraph is this one:

‘The deep story of the right goes like this:

You are patiently standing in the middle of a long line stretching toward the horizon, where the American Dream awaits. But as you wait, you see people cutting in line ahead of you. Many of these line-cutters are black—beneficiaries of affirmative action or welfare. Some are career-driven women pushing into jobs they never had before. Then you see immigrants, Mexicans, Somalis, the Syrian refugees yet to come. As you wait in this unmoving line, you’re being asked to feel sorry for them all. You have a good heart. But who is deciding who you should feel compassion for? Then you see President Barack Hussein Obama waving the line-cutters forward. He’s on their side. In fact, isn’t he a line-cutter too? How did this fatherless black guy pay for Harvard? As you wait your turn, Obama is using the money in your pocket to help the line-cutters. He and his liberal backers have removed the shame from taking. The government has become an instrument for redistributing your money to the undeserving. It’s not your government anymore; it’s theirs.‘
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That's a fascinating article which I probably need to read at least once more to digest but in addition to the line to the American dream analogy I thought it rather telling that Sharon's son Bailey, having had some exposure to a viewpoint other than Fox News was rather more progressive than many. There is clearly a huge divide, how could there not be with such a diversity and huge population. I hope the more conciliatory approach can heal some wounds.

Also the idea that taking government "handouts" is seen as wrong is interesting. As I say I haven't fully digested it all but thanks for posting.
 
roman totale said:
Great post @ZenHalfTimeCrock
Not all religious people are trump supporters, but I’d wager all trump supporters are religious. It’s the self-esteem frailties going on in these people that draws them into these cults.
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Thanks. Good to see a fellow fan of The Fall posting on here, by the way.
 
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