Another new Brexit thread

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dave_blue12 said:
Bravo John. Every word the truth.

We are in the hands of authoritarian populists and there is nothing but pain ahead for this country.

Those gawping in amazement at the antics of Trump should brace themselves because this Vote Leave Government are running the same playbook.
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No, every word is his interpretation of what he's rabidly against.
A pro Brexit diatribe by Nigel Farage is just as relevant, so his seething frustrations are simply a source of amusement, as they have no relevance other than a soothing balm for the frustrated.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
No, every word is his interpretation of what he's rabidly against.
A pro Brexit diatribe by Nigel Farage is just as relevant, so his seething frustrations are simply a source of amusement, as they have no relevance other than a soothing balm for the frustrated.
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Nigel Farage !

Even for you that's a peach !

Reality is a harsh mistress as you are soon to find out.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
No, every word is his interpretation of what he's rabidly against.
A pro Brexit diatribe by Nigel Farage is just as relevant, so his seething frustrations are simply a source of amusement, as they have no relevance other than a soothing balm for the frustrated.
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Why don't you address his speech point by point, then, like some of us do when the likes of Farage make one? this applies to any Brexit fan.
 
Vic said:
Is this why some overseas suppliers are giving up selling to the UK?

Let's cut red tape with Brexit.

www.gov.uk

Changes to VAT treatment of overseas goods sold to customers from 1 January 2021

www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
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Right now everyone is pretty much freaking out over the amount of extra work involved. Customs procedures, lack of custom agents, IT systems not up and running, VAT, Rules of Origin, GB/NI trade, food chains and a pandemic on top of it all. Deal or no deal, biggest change in decades in how we trade with Europe and NI is coming in 50 days.

Pass the popcorn.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
So you can't then. Surprise surprise.
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Saddleworth2 said:
Brexit divided England and Wales from Scotland and Northern Ireland. It divided political parties and families; the young and their elders; business and trade unions; and friend from friend. As its full impact becomes apparent in the New Year, old wounds may re-open.
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In other words, we shouldn't have done it because those that didn't win are upset about it.
Saddleworth2 said:
There is no consensus on Brexit, and never has been. It was a bitterly divisive policy, and uncorked a populism that may be difficult to quell.
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Another statement citing the obvious, and populism only becomes a problem, and is used as a pejorative, when folk decide to support a cause eschewed by those supporting an opposing view.

Saddleworth2 said:
he Referendum debate was unlike any I have known before. Emotion overcame reality. And, in the search for hearts and minds and votes, fiction defeated fact and fostered a belief in a past that never was – whilst boosting enthusiasm for a future that may never be.
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I would suggest his emotions have run away with him.
Saddleworth2 said:
In the Referendum, Britons voted to leave the European Union. I have never hidden my view, nor have I changed it. To my mind – and I am no starry-eyed European – Brexit is the worst foreign policy decision in my lifetime.
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Is it really, well we all have opinions, and his foreign policy decisions, particularly his enthusiasm for the ERM as chancellor, sent us into recession.
He's a EU fanatic.
Saddleworth2 said:
I have seen the EU from the inside and know its frustrations. But have no doubt we were better off in than we will be out.
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And others completely disagree with yet another of his opinions.
Saddleworth2 said:
The decision to leave will damage our future in many ways, and the reassurances we are given are unconvincing.
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Will it?
Saddleworth2 said:
Promises made will not – indeed, cannot – be kept. To leave the EU – to separate ourselves from our neighbours – was sold as “regaining sovereignty”, but it is, and will prove to be, a long and painful ball and chain on our national wellbeing.
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The corrupt EU, with its two parliaments, history of waste and corruption,
and the criminal negligent in charge is a ball and chain we're well rid of.
Saddleworth2 said:
After the Referendum, Brexiteers did not even bother to argue the merits of their case – why should they? – it was “the will of the people”.
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No shit Sherlock, the merits don't need to be argued over, that was the point of the referendum, to decide one way or the other. When you lose that, you can carry on arguing if you like, but eventually, the democratic process must be observed.
And yes, it was the will of the people, something he has no respect for.
Saddleworth2 said:
And once “the will of the people” was asserted as a repeated mantra – and the Brexit leaders claimed to speak for all “the people” – any opposition to Brexit became illegitimate, and any contrary view was howled down.
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Opposition to Brexit howled down? Parliament did the howling, for 4 years, stymying every attempt to implement the will of the people, he was one of the biggest howlers.
Saddleworth2 said:
Even Judges were denounced as “Enemies of the People” for ruling on a Point of Law. Opponents of Brexit were cowed, and free speech was curtailed. It was shameful. No democracy should find itself in such a position.
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No democracy can ignore the will of the people, his wish was for this democracy to do exactly that, thankfully, him and his ilk were eventually
overruled.
Saddleworth2 said:
Overseas, the outcome of the Referendum delighted our enemies and dismayed our friends. As our nation voted against its history and its self-interest, a bemused world looked on, wondering why we had chosen to become poorer and less influential.
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Voted against its history, what's that all about?
Saddleworth2 said:
Brexit was sold to the nation as a win-win situation. It is not. We were promised we would stay in the Single Market. We have not. We were told trade with the EU would be frictionless. It will not be.
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No we fucking weren't, leaving the EU was clear and concise, we quit the SM, CU and ECJ, any deviation from these fundamentals meant not leaving.

All the above, as I said has been discussed before, and John Major's rant is no different to dozens of others.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
In other words, we shouldn't have done it because those that didn't win are upset about it.

Another statement citing the obvious, and populism only becomes a problem, and is used as a pejorative, when folk decide to support a cause eschewed by those supporting an opposing view.


I would suggest his emotions have run away with him.

Is it really, well we all have opinions, and his foreign policy decisions, particularly his enthusiasm for the ERM as chancellor, sent us into recession.
He's a EU fanatic.

And others completely disagree with yet another of his opinions.

Will it?

The corrupt EU, with its two parliaments, history of waste and corruption,
and the criminal negligent in charge is a ball and chain we're well rid of.

No shit Sherlock, the merits don't need to be argued over, that was the point of the referendum, to decide one way or the other. When you lose that, you can carry on arguing if you like, but eventually, the democratic process must be observed.
And yes, it was the will of the people, something he has no respect for.

Opposition to Brexit howled down? Parliament did the howling, for 4 years, stymying every attempt to implement the will of the people, he was one of the biggest howlers.

No democracy can ignore the will of the people, his wish was for this democracy to do exactly that, thankfully, him and his ilk were eventually
overruled.

Voted against its history, what's that all about?

No we fucking weren't, leaving the EU was clear and concise, we quit the SM, CU and ECJ, any deviation from these fundamentals meant not leaving.

All the above, as I said has been discussed before, and John Major's rant is no different to dozens of others.
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Then why take so much trouble to respond. I did introduce my post with ‘for those that are interested’.
 
Vic said:
Years ago I helped my brother in law stockman with dagging sheep (cutting shit off the ewe's rear end hair before mating) then went out by bike into the fields and got chased by a ram. I think these days a ram in the field is a rarity. Not when a ram can sell at auction for £350,000....

If hill sheep farming becomes unviable that's a threat to the landscape we've got used to in the Lake District and Peak District.
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Let that be an example to anyone out there complaining about their job.
There’s something to aspire to.

Cutting shit off a sheep’s arse.

I’m going to check out vocational colleges over here to see if there are any night courses.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
In other words, we shouldn't have done it because those that didn't win are upset about it.

Another statement citing the obvious, and populism only becomes a problem, and is used as a pejorative, when folk decide to support a cause eschewed by those supporting an opposing view.


I would suggest his emotions have run away with him.

Is it really, well we all have opinions, and his foreign policy decisions, particularly his enthusiasm for the ERM as chancellor, sent us into recession.
He's a EU fanatic.

And others completely disagree with yet another of his opinions.

Will it?

The corrupt EU, with its two parliaments, history of waste and corruption,
and the criminal negligent in charge is a ball and chain we're well rid of.

No shit Sherlock, the merits don't need to be argued over, that was the point of the referendum, to decide one way or the other. When you lose that, you can carry on arguing if you like, but eventually, the democratic process must be observed.
And yes, it was the will of the people, something he has no respect for.

Opposition to Brexit howled down? Parliament did the howling, for 4 years, stymying every attempt to implement the will of the people, he was one of the biggest howlers.

No democracy can ignore the will of the people, his wish was for this democracy to do exactly that, thankfully, him and his ilk were eventually
overruled.

Voted against its history, what's that all about?

No we fucking weren't, leaving the EU was clear and concise, we quit the SM, CU and ECJ, any deviation from these fundamentals meant not leaving.

All the above, as I said has been discussed before, and John Major's rant is no different to dozens of others.
Click to expand...
Embarrassing.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
In other words, we shouldn't have done it because those that didn't win are upset about it.

Another statement citing the obvious, and populism only becomes a problem, and is used as a pejorative, when folk decide to support a cause eschewed by those supporting an opposing view.


I would suggest his emotions have run away with him.

Is it really, well we all have opinions, and his foreign policy decisions, particularly his enthusiasm for the ERM as chancellor, sent us into recession.
He's a EU fanatic.

And others completely disagree with yet another of his opinions.

Will it?

The corrupt EU, with its two parliaments, history of waste and corruption,
and the criminal negligent in charge is a ball and chain we're well rid of.

No shit Sherlock, the merits don't need to be argued over, that was the point of the referendum, to decide one way or the other. When you lose that, you can carry on arguing if you like, but eventually, the democratic process must be observed.
And yes, it was the will of the people, something he has no respect for.

Opposition to Brexit howled down? Parliament did the howling, for 4 years, stymying every attempt to implement the will of the people, he was one of the biggest howlers.

No democracy can ignore the will of the people, his wish was for this democracy to do exactly that, thankfully, him and his ilk were eventually
overruled.

Voted against its history, what's that all about?

No we fucking weren't, leaving the EU was clear and concise, we quit the SM, CU and ECJ, any deviation from these fundamentals meant not leaving.

All the above, as I said has been discussed before, and John Major's rant is no different to dozens of others.
Click to expand...
Just a couple of basic errors in there mate:

The 'will of the people' is a myth exploited throughout time by populists.
Correct to say the majority vote in a referendum held in June 2016.

The option to remain in the Customs union was not ruled out in the referendum campaign.

Other than that not a bad rant.
 
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I recall some people going on about how unfair it was to non-EU countries (racist even) to have free trade only with the EU... (and ignoring all the zero tariffs the EU had with developing countries).

Oh look...


Many Fairtrade farmers rely on trade with the UK to feed their families, but needless delays by the Government on rollover trade deals post-Brexit are putting that at risk.

Without a deal, when the transition period ends and the UK leaves the EU on 1 January – just weeks away – exorbitant tariffs will be slapped on Ghanaian farmers' exports, like Fairtrade bananas and cocoa. This will severely impact the ability of farmers to access the UK market, putting their livelihoods at risk.

Will you call on the Government now to protect both British consumers and Ghanaian farmers by ending the delays and acting now to prevent these damaging tariffs coming into force?
 
Len Rum said:
Just a couple of basic errors in there mate:

The 'will of the people' is a myth exploited throughout time by populists.
Correct to say the majority vote in an election held in June 2016.

The option to remain in the Customs union was not ruled out in the referendum campaign.

Other than that not a bad rant.
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Sorry to correct your correction but it wasn't an election it was an Advisory Referendum.

You are however, correct that 'will of the people' is populist bollocks used by many hideous regimes including the Nazi Party.
 
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