Another new Brexit thread

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I think that attitude plays well to a certain narrow domestic demographic, but suspect it's not the way any adults involved in the brexit negotiations will be conducting business. We're either going to some sort of compromise (deal) or leave on WTO (no deal). If we get a deal it'll be decried as folding, backing down etc; no deal will be portrayed also as a stupid failure of some sort. Underneath this all is the fact that some people still just can't accept the 2016 decision and make it their mission to see the very worst in every possible outcome. I can understand this and even empathise to an extent, but as a position it is every bit as silly as the 'sunny uplands' lot.

I describe it as ‘folding’ principally because HMG has been giving it the Billy big bollocks to no discernible effect. Once again, confident posturing amounting to naught ‘they need us more than we need them’ etc... I have nothing but contempt for people who conduct business in that fashion, irrespective of their views or outlook on a particular topic.

If the negotiations had been conducted in a more civil and conciliatory fashion then that label would be unfair - but they haven’t, so it isn’t.

We’re going to fold, like I always suspected we would.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I describe it as ‘folding’ principally because HMG has been giving it the Billy big bollocks to no discernible effect. Once again, confident posturing amount to naught. I have nothing but contempt for people who conduct business in that fashion, irrespective of their views or outlook on a particular topic.

If the negotiations had been conducted in a more civil and conciliatory fashion then that label would be unfair - but they haven’t, so it isn’t.

We’re going to fold, like I always suspected we would.

I imagine the actual negotiations are a bit more conciliatory, civil, and basically grown-up than the output for public consumption which is playing to the gallery / pure theatre.

 

[crazyg]

We’re going to fold like a cheap suitcase. All so tediously predictable, of course. Fucking set of losers we have running this country. Couldn’t negotiate, if their fucking lives depended on it. Useless cunts.

To think, we once ruled the waves.

Now, especially with planning permissions for mates (donors), we merely waive the rules.

 

[west didsblue]

I imagine the actual negotiations are a bit more conciliatory, civil, and basically grown-up than the output for public consumption which is playing to the gallery / pure theatre.

No shit.

It won’t affect the outcome though.

 

[stonerblue]

@adrianr ^^^^^ See what I mean. You can feel the anger and hate.

Not anger and hate. just the brutal truth.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Not anger and hate. just the brutal truth.

I think to some extent we all hold on to some form of denial in uncertain times as a way of rationalising / coping.

 

[Vic]

.... no deal will be portrayed also as a stupid failure of some sort...

"Portrayed as"?

If you could furnish one bit of evidence that any Leaver seriously suggested during the referendum campaign that "no deal" would be a success, I would not have to say this comment is a load of shite. Anger doesn't come close to it for what these bastards have done to our country.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

"Portrayed as"?

If you could furnish one bit of evidence that any Leaver seriously suggested during the referendum campaign that "no deal" would be a success, I would not have to say this comment is a load of shite. Anger doesn't come close to it for what these bastards have done to our country.

Tbh I only recall 'a deal' being a significant part of the debate after the ref although I acknowledge that there were promises of it being easy etc which is obviously not the case. One of the problems with referendums is that they distil a complex debate down to a binary question - in this case in or out.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I imagine the actual negotiations are a bit more conciliatory, civil, and basically grown-up than the output for public consumption which is playing to the gallery / pure theatre.

I can only speak as I find.

 

[Vic]

Tbh I only recall 'a deal' being a significant part of the debate after the ref although I acknowledge that there were promises of it being easy etc which is obviously not the case. One of the problems with referendums is that they distil a complex debate down to a binary question - in this case in or out.

Well what you recall is also shite.

"Europe yes, EU no. We have a new UK-EU Treaty based on free trade and friendly cooperation. There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it."

'Leave' looks like...

Europe yes, EU no. We have a new UK-EU Treaty based on free trade and friendly cooperation. There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it. We will take back the power to negotiate our own trade deals.

www.voteleavetakecontrol.org

It was calculated to counter the warnings about how disastrous it would be to leave the SM and CU.

Until "Remainer" May came up with the shite "no deal is better than a bad deal" mantra, no-one seriously thought we'd end up where we are. In the shite, up shite creek without even a shite paddle.

 

[Del_Bosque]

The reason it will be described as folding is that we will not have achieved any of the key promises made by the leave campaign other than the simple fact we have left (which has already been achieved) and the EU won’t have conceded anything significant.
No extra money to the NHS. No FTZ from Russia to Iceland. No change to the ease of conducting trade across borders. No trade deals better than the ones we already had. Less red tape. In other words no cake and eat it, just a load of extra expense and nothing to show for it. It’s what we voted for though.

Planned funding for the NHS through to 2024 has actually gone up a lot

 

[bluethrunthru]

That Somerset Brie should do well but there's only so much Stilton you can eat. No wonder Truss was desperate to sell it to Japan rather than the EU.

I thought his suggestion that sheep farmers should diversify into beef production just showed what a **** this guy is - he has a farming background, he knows why some places farm beef and some are only suitable for sheep but he trots it out to keep their bases mouths foaming - Brexiteers are like Trump voters just refusing to accept the truth because within it lies and admission that they are wrong.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Well what you recall is also shite.

"Europe yes, EU no. We have a new UK-EU Treaty based on free trade and friendly cooperation. There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it."

'Leave' looks like...

Europe yes, EU no. We have a new UK-EU Treaty based on free trade and friendly cooperation. There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it. We will take back the power to negotiate our own trade deals.

www.voteleavetakecontrol.org

It was calculated to counter the warnings about how disastrous it would be to leave the SM and CU.

Until "Remainer" May came up with the shite "no deal is better than a bad deal" mantra, no-one seriously thought we'd end up where we are. In the shite, up shite creek without even a shite paddle.

It seems that you are fixated on the things that you care about - all perfectly natural and we all do it. I recall the main 'sell' from vote leave being the gross annual contribution to EU coffers rather than the deal. Also 'shite' to an extent actually if you analyse it. The deal bit was very much a footnote in an argument that ended for better or worse four years ago.

 

[Fred_Quimby]

I imagine the actual negotiations are a bit more conciliatory, civil, and basically grown-up than the output for public consumption which is playing to the gallery / pure theatre.

If this was actually true then they should have saying so. It's all down to the hard line leavers blowing a gasket if this was actually going on.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

If this was actually true then they should have saying so. It's all down to the hard line leavers blowing a gasket if this was actually going on.

Who knows mate, but it's clear that no one can get everything they want so something will have to give. It'll be a shame if that thing is common sense and it's no deal - a shame for us and the EU.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

The reason it will be described as folding is that we will not have achieved any of the key promises made by the leave campaign other than the simple fact we have left (which has already been achieved) and the EU won’t have conceded anything significant.
No extra money to the NHS. No FTZ from Russia to Iceland. No change to the ease of conducting trade across borders. No trade deals better than the ones we already had. Less red tape. In other words no cake and eat it, just a load of extra expense and nothing to show for it. It’s what we voted for though.

This, above. Sooo much pain just for a "feeling" that we're "free".

I just cannot see how we're better off than we were before the referendum. It is worse though.

 

[west didsblue]

Planned funding for the NHS through to 2024 has actually gone up a lot

I missed mentioning the bit where they said it would be paid from savings due to not paying our EU contribution. If it does go up as per the plan it will be from massive additional borrowing which is hardly a benefit of leaving.

 

[Vic]

It seems that you are fixated on the things that you care about - all perfectly natural and we all do it. I recall the main 'sell' from vote leave being the gross annual contribution to EU coffers rather than the deal. Also 'shite' to an extent actually if you analyse it. The deal bit was very much a footnote in an argument that ended for better or worse four years ago.

Sorry mate, but anyone who voted Leave without any idea of what sort of alternative trade arrangements we'd have (like shite Farage "we could be like Norway") voted for shite. No one, but no one, said we'd be leaving with no trade deals at all, with the EU or with all the countries we had EU deals with. If someone had said we'd be grateful for being able to sell Stilton to Japan, it wouldn't even have been labelled Project Fear, but Project Shite.

Just admit it, because you've sat on more fences than the fabulous Fence Sitter Beast of Fencesitterland.

 

[bluethrunthru]

I missed mentioning the bit where they said it would be paid from savings due to not paying our EU contribution. If it does go up as per the plan it will be from massive additional borrowing which is hardly a benefit of leaving.

The staff are expected to fund most of it themselves

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Sorry mate, but anyone who voted Leave without any idea of what sort of alternative trade arrangements we'd have (like shite Farage "we could be like Norway") voted for shite. No one, but no one, said we'd be leaving with no trade deals at all, with the EU or with all the countries we had EU deals with. If someone had said we'd be grateful for being able to sell Stilton to Japan, it wouldn't even have been labelled Project Fear, but Project Shite.

Just admit it, because you've sat on more fences than the fabulous Fence Sitter Beast of Fencesitterland.

Even the EU said we could have a Canada style deal at the time - their idea in fact.