COVID-19 — Coronavirus

[M18CTID]

No. i'd prefer that the money they spent wasn't repeatedly wasted.

The government rightfully need to be called out on a lot of things regarding the pandemic, including where some of the money has gone. I do feel, however, that not all spending decisions have been taken in bad faith. The furlough scheme is the obvious one - it’s been a welcome relief to many businesses and millions of employees but on the flip side it is easy for unscrupulous business owners to manipulate and fraudulent claims have reportedly cost the government (or rather the taxpayer as it will no doubt be us footing a lot of the bill for years to come) around £2bn.
Another downside of the furlough scheme is that it doesn’t encourage a return to work and the opportunity to get the economy moving again. I suppose nobody expected at the outset that it would be extended for as long as it has, but if you look at Germany then their equivalent scheme - “Kurzabeit” which was actually introduced during the financial crash - involves subsidising employee wages but instead of them being sat at home, they’re required to come into work instead (I’m guessing there are exceptions regarding places of work where social distancing isn’t possible). This is a better idea IMO as the help is still there but it also keeps the economy ticking over more.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

100%!

The Oxford / AZ press release reported the same

"No hospitalisations or severe cases of COVID-19 in participants treated with AZD1222"​

AZD1222 vaccine met primary efficacy endpoint in preventing COVID-19

www.astrazeneca.com

Not sure about Pfizer, but would be surprised to see different.

 

[Healdplace]

Pfizer’s main manufacturing facility is in Belgium. They have already started exporting huge volumes.

That is good news for Europe possibly. But my concern is the poorer nations who cannot afford the huge cost of this vaccine compared with the cheaper (though less effective) Oxford one.

Should not the UN be doing all it can to minimise the inevitable capitalist exploitation of profit from the one that chances to be the most effective?

After all the more they sell the more money they make. They should balance duty to shareholders versus that to the world's poorer countries in a global pandemic.

Oxford vaccine made clear up front this would be a consideration. Have the US Drug companies done so yet?

 

[roubaixtuesday]

the cheaper (though less effective) Oxford one.

It's far too early to come to this conclusion on efficacy.

It's very hard to show relative efficacy in different trials with different patient populations in different countries.

And we have no data at all yet on longevity of response, which could differ between these.

All we can say really is that all three appear to show good efficacy. The focus on relative efficacy is mislplaced IMO.

On the ethics, I'm surprised that Pfizer and Moderna have got away with it to date. Essentially their position is "the rules let us make lots of cash, so we're damn well going to". I'd have thought they would be getting a pasting at governmental level, but there's no sign of that.

 

[Healdplace]

Wales data 3 deaths 802 cases. No mention of if this is low due to the test problems Nicola Sturgeon mentioned.

 

[Healdplace]

Andy Burnham prefers all of GM out of tier 3 but wants Trafford, Tameside and Stockport out of tier 3 because of the figures.

What about Salford? Their numbers are not different from these 3 now.

I hope that this is not what happens. We should not repeat the same mistakes.

 

[Healdplace]

Wales 3 wks v 2 wks v last wk v today

Deaths 8 v 2 v 9 v 3 today

Cases 931 v 892 v 892 v 802 today - if not false data today that is more hopeful than recently.

Patients 1030 v 1127 v 1159 v 1120 today - also hopeful

Ventilated 74 v 58 v 74 v 65 today

 

[Healdplace]

N Ireland

10 deaths

4 F / 6 M Aged 60 - 79 (5) 80 + (5)

290 cases

7 day rolling case total 2505 (up from 2495)

Age ranges 0 - 19 (385), 20 - 39 (699) 40 - 59 (766) 60 - 79 (417), 80 + (237)

Care home outbreaks 131 (down from 142)

422 Patients

29 on Ventilators

 

[Healdplace]

N Ireland 3 wks v 2 wks v last wk v today

Deaths: 10 v 14 v 3 v 10 today. A lot for a Monday.

Cases: 471 v 331 v 280 v 290 today plateau

7 day rolling total: 3921 v 3821 v 2955 v 2505 today.

Patients : 426 v 427 v 438 v 422 today - much as above

Ventilated: 43 v 37 v 30 v 29 today - slow but hopeful fall.

 

[Healdplace]

England hospital deaths 183 with just 19 from NW. This is the lowest split yet but Sunday data means NW always under reports.

3 wks v 2 wks v last wk v today - total cases - NW cases - % NW of total

167 / 36/ 22% v 190 / 45 / 24% v 178 / 19 / 11% v 183 / 19 / 10% - lowest NW % yet.

And a very stable number with no big increases week to week looking hopeful of a plateau before a fall.

 

[Healdplace]

England hospital deaths other details:

Aside from the 19 NW (same as last wk but out of 5 more cases) other regions were NE & Yorks 57 (was 59) and Midlands 55 (was 44).

Ages of the 183 deaths 40 - 59 (6) 60 - 79 (74) 80 + (103)

 

[andyhinch]

Andy Burnham prefers all of GM out of tier 3 but wants Trafford, Tameside and Stockport out of tier 3 because of the figures.

What about Salford? Their numbers are not different from these 3 now.

I hope that this is not what happens. We should not repeat the same mistakes.

It does feel strange that I’m T2 but if I walk a mile it’s T3 which unfortunately is where my daughter lives.

 

[Healdplace]

It does feel strange that I’m T2 but if I walk a mile it’s T3 which unfortunately is where my daughter lives.

Which unfortunately is the problem and why national lockdowns work and regional ones - especially with easy to access gaps - less so because there are so many reasons - some valid some not - that tempt violations that are clearer and seem fairer so get broken less often if all areas have the same rules.

 

[vincent]

Which unfortunately is the problem and why national lockdowns work and regional ones - especially with easy to access gaps - less so because there are so many reasons - some valid some not - that tempt violations that are clearer and seem fairer so get broken less often if all areas have the same rules.

Andy Burnham was against regional lockdowns a few months ago. Surprised to read he is now pushing for some parts of GM to move to lower tiers.

 

[Healdplace]

England hospital deaths by date:

29 Nov adds 27 = 27 after 1 day (Last wk was 39)

28 Nov adds 104 = 144 after 2 days (Last wk was 84 = 104)

27 Nov adds 26 = 189 after 3 days (Last wk was 33 = 202)

26 Nov adds 8 = 244 after 4 days (Last wk was 10 = 252)

25 Nov adds 9 = 292 after 5 days (Last wk was 3 = 305) Another post 300 total seems to be building here sadly. But the add ons here are generally down.

Biggest other add ons (with odd one back to 5 Nov) are 3 added to 22 Nov to total 306.

None were added to the other two days currently over 300 deaths. With 18 Nov still the peak at 315.

 

[Healdplace]

Andy Burnham was against regional lockdowns a few months ago. Surprised to read he is now pushing for some parts of GM to move to lower tiers.

He did actually say in his interview on the BBC just now that he prefers all of GM in tier 2 together but will fight for those three lowest scoring regions to be excluded if that is not possible.

Not sure why he has excluded Salford given that they have clearly fallen the second most in the past week or so.

Pop score in Salford down in week from 261 - 164 (97) v Tameside 256 - 158 (98) , Stockport 221 - 150 (71) and Trafford 173 - 122 (51). Very little difference there between Tameside and Salford.

 

[mosssideblue]

Apologies if question has already been raised but does anyone know how soon after the vaccine is given does it take effect?

 

[Healdplace]

Total deaths in UK without out of hospital England to be added is today 199

3 wks v 2 wks v last wk v today: 186 v 212 v 190 v 199 today - which looks very much like a plateau.

 

[Healdplace]

Total cases today without England (with the warning about testing issues to be remembered today).

3 wks v 2 wks v last wk v today: 2314 v 1940 v 2121 v 1461 today (plus whatever it really is in Scotland and/or elsewhere added)

 

[Healdplace]

The motto was supposed to be 'we are all in this together' - not 'the places someone picks out on a map are but the rest of you are not'. In a pandemic you ought to prioritise national unity not disunity.

They really should have created a war cabinet from day one and decided these things on the basis that viruses will never know they have crossed a border - be it from GM to Cheshire or England to Scotland or Wales.

Very possibly N Ireland and Ireland should have done the same on that island too.

I suspect the rest of the world think prioritising political disunity over a plan for these small islands as one was a very silly error.