Another new Brexit thread

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

It’s already happened. We left on 31 Jan. But that isn’t enough for our government.

They appear to want to make the consequences of our departure as difficult as possible for the majority of the population in order to appease a small minority that will profit from it.

We are not in a position to play hardball because we don’t hold the best cards. The only one we’ve got is fish which in reality is worth next to fuck all to us economically but is valuable to the EU, but we’re treating it like the Crown Jewels.

The irony is that the EU can’t compromise much on LPF and governance because it would cause bigger problems within the EU than it would solve with the UK, so the only outcome where there’s a deal is the EU giving us a win on fish on exchange for us backing down on LPF and governance. It would give Johnson something to boast about but the reality would be that the EU have got what they wanted. Our win on fish, if it happens, would have little consequence to 99.9% of the population.

The alternative is No Deal which is shit for everyone but worse for us.

There are 7000 people in the UK employed manning the trawlers.... (and if Patel had her way half of them would be sent home) so its more like 99.999999% of the population.

 

[mcfc1632]

Got to be honest, but on here I think it's more the other way round. The EU (and in particular France) being lauded for playing hardball but when the UK does it we're just being stubborn.

And just so as you're aware, I'm not in favour of us leaving the EU, I've just accepted that it's going to happen.

Spot on

It's just one of the Remainer bingo responses - utterly inaccurate but they hope if repeated often enough......

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

touched on by Rachel Riley on Marr this morning and as has been pointed out on this thread many times

Deregulation and a shredding of employment rights and protections. A move towards an American style economy.

Bernard Hopkins on local TV now saying that we're not going to let the Eu dictate to us on workers rights .

 

[Blue Maverick]

For those that can spend a few mins and deploy objectivity - I think that this offers a fairly good description of how things have operated and are reshaping now in the light of Covid and Brexit:

‘More Europe’ after Brexit | National Review

It brings out the accuracy of the German and French past controls and the current dynamics - and the previous role - always eventually futile - of the UK. It comments well on the emerging tensions between France and Germany

It provides helpful explanation of how the other 'contributors' are forced to reluctantly tag along. It is easy to understand why the debtors follow the lines - and also explains the exceptions e.g. Poland and Hungary. Surely, one has to feel massive sympathy for Holland, Sweden, Denmark and Austria?

Importantly also, there is fleeting reference to one of the key reasons that the UK, for its long-tern prosperity, absolutely must leave the EU and will benefit from a clean Brexit - I wonder how many of the die-hards would be able to swallow and accept the obvious truth. In this regard - for those willing to analyse - it becomes quite obvious what Macron's range of views are towards the terms the UK should leave on and also Merkel's - along with Holland, Sweden, Denmark and Austria - total preference for the UK to remain.

And for the couple of posters that bang on about opt-outs and vetoes there is some obvious explanation of why they will not be even a medium-term protection

There are also a couple of other gems to be considered as a result of what can be discerned for those with objectivity - which I will come back to rather than make this a longer post. It will be curious (well at least to me) to see the level of genuine analysis

Can’t read it says I need to subscribe

 

[Blue Maverick]

I agree with your point about Industrial fishing. It should be banned irrespective of where it is. The practice will ultimately make our oceans as lifeless as Mars.

Watched a David Attenborough program on Netflix and showed how gushing can be brought back up by stopping fishing in certain areas from a coast line it allows them to breed a d grow and provides enough fish for everyone

 

[Blue Maverick]

Could there be a call for another referendum to go back in? Not that I think there should be, and how difficult would it be to go back?

 

[BobKowalski]

For those that can spend a few mins and deploy objectivity - I think that this offers a fairly good description of how things have operated and are reshaping now in the light of Covid and Brexit:

‘More Europe’ after Brexit | National Review

It brings out the accuracy of the German and French past controls and the current dynamics - and the previous role - always eventually futile - of the UK. It comments well on the emerging tensions between France and Germany

It provides helpful explanation of how the other 'contributors' are forced to reluctantly tag along. It is easy to understand why the debtors follow the lines - and also explains the exceptions e.g. Poland and Hungary. Surely, one has to feel massive sympathy for Holland, Sweden, Denmark and Austria?

Importantly also, there is fleeting reference to one of the key reasons that the UK, for its long-tern prosperity, absolutely must leave the EU and will benefit from a clean Brexit - I wonder how many of the die-hards would be able to swallow and accept the obvious truth. In this regard - for those willing to analyse - it becomes quite obvious what Macron's range of views are towards the terms the UK should leave on and also Merkel's - along with Holland, Sweden, Denmark and Austria - total preference for the UK to remain.

And for the couple of posters that bang on about opt-outs and vetoes there is some obvious explanation of why they will not be even a medium-term protection

There are also a couple of other gems to be considered as a result of what can be discerned for those with objectivity - which I will come back to rather than make this a longer post. It will be curious (well at least to me) to see the level of genuine analysis

I got to ‘The British still haven’t left except formally’, and stopped reading.

We’ve left. Negations currently taking place are about how high we want trade and cultural barriers to be with European countries. Very high, not quite so high.

Pick one.

 

[mcfc1632]

Can’t read it says I need to subscribe

Strange - I was able to read it without subscribing

Edit: I think that it is one of those where you get a number of free articles and just have to click on the 'X' of the advert it posts at the start

Otherwise try pasting:

‘More Europe’ after Brexit | National Review

EU politics are colliding with debt, COVID, and domestic law.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[BobKowalski]

Could there be a call for another referendum to go back in? Not that I think there should be, and how difficult would it be to go back?

Very. We will be on the outside, in permanent negotiations with the EU for several generations. Probably longer.

Also our entry would be vetoed.

Best bet is move to Scotland and wait for them to join, or if you can’t wait a few years, move to NI as they are still half in the EU.

 

[BobKowalski]

I try not to read your posts - let alone respond to them - but this is just another example of you either twisting the words of others or posting outright nonsense

Can you point to a single post where a Leaver has stated that the EU - in any circumstances - "will fold like a cheap suit and give us everything we want"?

I really don't think that you can - and if you cannot - perhaps you should edit your post?

FWIW - I have often said something that you may not have understood:

"We will not see movement from the EU unless and until they are faced with the prospect of a viable walk-away option – and the political will to use it”

But you surely cannot be referring to this can you? as nowhere does it suggest that the EU will fold like a cheap suit and give us everything we want.

It has although been proven to be wholly accurate over these last 12 months

Yet, you do. Every time. Like a moth to a flame, and with the same inevitable consequences.

 

[Saddleworth2]

For those that can spend a few mins and deploy objectivity - I think that this offers a fairly good description of how things have operated and are reshaping now in the light of Covid and Brexit:

‘More Europe’ after Brexit | National Review

It brings out the accuracy of the German and French past controls and the current dynamics - and the previous role - always eventually futile - of the UK. It comments well on the emerging tensions between France and Germany

It provides helpful explanation of how the other 'contributors' are forced to reluctantly tag along. It is easy to understand why the debtors follow the lines - and also explains the exceptions e.g. Poland and Hungary. Surely, one has to feel massive sympathy for Holland, Sweden, Denmark and Austria?

Importantly also, there is fleeting reference to one of the key reasons that the UK, for its long-tern prosperity, absolutely must leave the EU and will benefit from a clean Brexit - I wonder how many of the die-hards would be able to swallow and accept the obvious truth. In this regard - for those willing to analyse - it becomes quite obvious what Macron's range of views are towards the terms the UK should leave on and also Merkel's - along with Holland, Sweden, Denmark and Austria - total preference for the UK to remain.

And for the couple of posters that bang on about opt-outs and vetoes there is some obvious explanation of why they will not be even a medium-term protection

There are also a couple of other gems to be considered as a result of what can be discerned for those with objectivity - which I will come back to rather than make this a longer post. It will be curious (well at least to me) to see the level of genuine analysis

I will read it and may come back if I deem it important enough.

Am I reading your post correctly though. 'I am considerably smarter than you lot and i bet you can't guess what I'm thinking albeit the truth should be obvious to anyone that isn't a complete moron. However if anyone responds I reserve the right 1) not to reply because I don't like you 2) to be condescending and patronise your worthy but ultimately intellectually lacking attempt'

Did I miss anything?

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Could there be a call for another referendum to go back in? Not that I think there should be, and how difficult would it be to go back?

The only thing with that is, firms have already started their transition to adapt to the new Great Britain post-Brexit. Plus there are thousands of firms worldwide (1,441 from the EU itself) who have set up or will set up offices to Great Britain after Brexit. What would happen to them?

 

[Northernstorirs]

The only thing with that is, firms have already started their transition to adapt to the new Great Britain post-Brexit. Plus there are thousands of firms worldwide (1,441 from the EU itself) who have set up or will set up offices to Great Britain after Brexit. What would happen to them?

I'd happily work weekends to undo everything put in place if it meant we could have a 2nd ref.

It is absurd that we haven't had one. The original ref was too vague. I agreed with Corbyn's approach which was actually sensible.

 

[mcfc1632]

I will read it and may come back if I deem it important enough.

Am I reading your post correctly though. 'I am considerably smarter than you lot and i bet you can't guess what I'm thinking albeit the truth should be obvious to anyone that isn't a complete moron. However if anyone responds I reserve the right 1) not to reply because I don't like you 2) to be condescending and patronise your worthy but ultimately intellectually lacking attempt'

Did I miss anything?

Yes - quite a lot

How much will be demonstrated IMO by any analysis you care to do

Also....

Excuse me being used to little apart from cheap and snide comments from the more dominant Remain posters who obviously seek to avoid hard truths being posted and discussed

Hence I made the comments I did

 

[blueinsa]

I'd happily work weekends to undo everything put in place if it meant we could have a 2nd ref.

It is absurd that we haven't had one. The original ref was too vague. I agreed with Corbyn's approach which was actually sensible.

Leave would win again and again, we would have many refusing to accept it.

All mute anyway as we have already left.

Only question now is do we get a deal or not? I think and always have thought we will.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Yes - quite a lot

How much will be demonstrated IMO by any analysis you care to do

Also....

Excuse me being used to little apart from cheap and snide comments from the more dominant Remain posters who obviously seek to avoid hard truths being posted and discussed

Hence I made the comments I did

Ever thought they make those comments because you make posts like that?

 

[Metal Biker]

Could there be a call for another referendum to go back in? Not that I think there should be, and how difficult would it be to go back?

Probably, but as has been said on here, in the twitterverse and everywhere else; a referendum is only advisory. It would require a willing Government to enact upon it as a referendum itself is not legally binding.

Then we have the 27 (or potentially fewer) EU nations all needing to agree to it and I severely doubt a decision to accept the UK back in would be unanimous. Then you have the issue regarding adopting the Euro (a requirement of all new members from now on) which wouldn't be popular.

If you so desire to live in the EU, I can only suggest moving to an EU member state as it'll be decades before such a situation arises in the UK again.

 

[Metal Biker]

I'd happily work weekends to undo everything put in place if it meant we could have a 2nd ref.

It is absurd that we haven't had one. The original ref was too vague. I agreed with Corbyn's approach which was actually sensible.

The British public didn't.

"we'll negotiate a deal with the EU, and then once we achieved an agreement, put that deal back to the British public, where they can vote on leaving the EU by accepting the deal, or remaining in the EU"

"And what position would Labour take?"

"We'd support remaining in the EU"

"So you'd effectively campaign against your OWN deal that you agreed?"

"...."

 

[Northernstorirs]

The British public didn't.

"we'll negotiate a deal with the EU, and then once we achieved an agreement, put that deal back to the British public, where they can vote on leaving the EU by accepting the deal, or remaining in the EU"

"And what position would Labour take?"

"We'd support remaining in the EU"

"So you'd effectively campaign against your OWN deal that you agreed?"

"...."

The British public didn't know at the time of the ref the terms on which we would be leaving. It was unknown to everybody and was also nearly 5 years a go.

 

[BobKowalski]

The only thing with that is, firms have already started their transition to adapt to the new Great Britain post-Brexit. Plus there are thousands of firms worldwide (1,441 from the EU itself) who have set up or will set up offices to Great Britain after Brexit. What would happen to them?

Not sure they would be unhappy at dispensing with the the extra costs and administrative burden that Brexit necessitates, including doing away with offices that become redundant.

The point of a trade bloc is to make internal trade easier with less red tape and costs across borders.

Somewhat symbolically as we stand alone on 1st Jan, this date will also see AfCFTA come into force in Africa creating the worlds largest free trade area as a step towards their version of the EU trade bloc.