Another new Brexit thread

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Gaudion M said:
What a pathetic saga this has been. Get all the flak for doing it - get MPs and ministers on telly excusing the government for doing it. Realise it is not at all helpful in the negotiation and then withdraw it. Absolutely pathetic behaviour from the Tories.

The reality has been the same for months - they have zero option but to do a deal. They will no doubt play it out for maximum drama and to minimise the scrutiny but at the latest possible minute they will do a deal. Even if that means going into January to do it they will do a deal.
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Pretty much sums up the last four years.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
I’ve stated in the Scottish thread that I don’t find the position of Saddleworth, Coatigan, Blueparrot, Magicpole and others (apologies to any I’ve left out) in anyway hypocritical.
I find their train of thought in the unfolding of events logical.

I also pointed out in there, much like you have in here, that as there are several nuances that influenced people to vote Tory and Brexit in the Brexit elections and referendum, so also are there many reasons for people who are not lefty nationalists to vote SNP in Scotland.

I find your post a very fair summation. I find it refreshing, your admittance to bewilderment at the meaning of British. I’m Irish so assumed it was something that I would just not get, but I’ve asked the question of British people several times and never got what I considered a satisfactory answer.

You’re English. That’s fine. Own it.

I always considered British, something Irish and Scottish people get called when they did something good like winning a medal, otherwise they were still Scottish or Irish (NI).

As I said. Whatever you’re personal beliefs, I find your post to Saddleworth fair.
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If I am forced to think about it, I describe myself as British, rather than English. British for me is more accurate than English, as Britain is greater than the sum of its parts. A unique heritage that I am proud of.

I admit this is a very romantic view, but there is more emotional resonance for me in ‘British’ than ‘English’.

That said for much of my life, I’ve never given it a great deal of thought.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Not you personally, but it looks to me as if the SNP just want to swap subservience to the 'auld' enemy, with subservience to another funding source. It's just about hating the English and wanting to change sugar daddies - absolutely fine btw, but to dress it up as freedom is disingenuous. The EU thing is just an excuse - the SNP wanted to leave the UK before we even joined the EU, while we were in it, and still do now.
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You are angry because a member of the ''union'' has the audacity to want to break away from a country that has done absolutely nothing for them since the 70's . The arrogance and hypocrisy of you Tories is breathtaking .... absolutely breathtaking.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
I’ve stated in the Scottish thread that I don’t find the position of Saddleworth, Coatigan, Blueparrot, Magicpole and others (apologies to any I’ve left out) in anyway hypocritical.
I find their train of thought in the unfolding of events logical.

I also pointed out in there, much like you have in here, that as there are several nuances that influenced people to vote Tory and Brexit in the Brexit elections and referendum, so also are there many reasons for people who are not lefty nationalists to vote SNP in Scotland.

I find your post a very fair summation. I find it refreshing, your admittance to bewilderment at the meaning of British. I’m Irish so assumed it was something that I would just not get, but I’ve asked the question of British people several times and never got what I considered a satisfactory answer.

You’re English. That’s fine. Own it.

I always considered British, something Irish and Scottish people get called when they did something good like winning a medal, otherwise they were still Scottish or Irish (NI).

As I said. Whatever you’re personal beliefs, I find your post to Saddleworth fair.
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I consider myself British because that's my nationality. It says so on my passport.

Plus having Irish and Scottish (plus a smidge of Norwegian) ancestry makes me consider myself from, and of, these isles.

I also can't stand the flag of St George. The Union Jack* is my flag.


* I don't care!
 
1.618034 said:
I consider myself British because that's my nationality. It says so on my passport.

Plus having Irish and Scottish (plus a smidge of Norwegian) ancestry makes me consider myself from, and of, these isles.

I also can't stand the flag of St George. The Union Jack* is my flag.


* I don't care!
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Don't worry, you're correct. The Monarchy states that the term Union Flag/Jack are both correct. The nonsense about it "only being called the 'Union Jack' when flown on the bow of a ship" is just that. The Admiralty has denied ever giving it that term as they call it the Union Jack/Flag no matter where it is flown on the ship.

Coupled with the fact that the "Jack" refers to Jacobus (James I/VII) latinised name. It was a daft conspiracy theory dreamt up in the mid 2000's and none of it was ever based on fact.

TL;DR, You're free to refer to the flag however you wish and anyone who tries to correct you on it is a tw@ :)
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Don't worry, you're correct. The Monarchy states that the term Union Flag/Jack are both correct. The nonsense about it "only being called the 'Union Jack' when flown on the bow of a ship" is just that. The Admiralty has denied ever giving it that term as they call it the Union Jack/Flag no matter where it is flown on the ship.

Coupled with the fact that the "Jack" refers to Jacobus (James I/VII) latinised name. It was a daft conspiracy theory dreamt up in the mid 2000's and none of it was ever based on fact.

TL;DR, You're free to refer to the flag however you wish and anyone who tries to correct you on it is a tw@ :)
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Ta.

There were quite a few conspiracy theories dreamt up in the 2000s that we're still dealing with now and IMHO one of them was that the EU was a Bogeyman and were holding us back.

Add in anti-vaxxers and NWO nutjobs.

The internet has been a disaster is this respect. Again IMO.
 
BobKowalski said:
What Cyprus and Greece wants and needs is allies when dealing with Turkey. There is talk, led by France, of imposing sanctions on Turkey, albeit Germany is reluctant. It‘s on the agenda for this week’s summit.

Leaving the EU would get Cyprus precisely no where as it would remove what leverage they have in getting the bloc to weigh in against Turkey.

Ironically, France apart, Turkey has gone back to saying nice things about Europe and how much Turkey is part of Europe because its economy is in the crapper and if Germany uses its economic heft, it’s going to sink without trace. US Congress is applying sanctions to Turkey on buying Russian arms (which turned out to be useless) and under Biden, further economic sanctions are likely.

Germany’s calculation is that Turkey having an economic meltdown will create more problems then it solves.

In short, no easy answers given Erdogan is still an unhinged lunatic, but as we know ‘easy answers‘ are what people demand these days.
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All the Turks are coming here Bob .... they told us so ....

They weren't lying to us were they?



IMG_0065.jpg
 
Honestly, you have to laugh...

‘INEOS owned by billionaire Brexit backer Jim Ratcliffe officially end plan to build new Grenadier car in UK in Bridgend will be built in Hambach, in France, it announces...’ @BBC

And now with the correction...it’s Germany not France.

 
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mancity2012_eamo said:
I’ve stated in the Scottish thread that I don’t find the position of Saddleworth, Coatigan, Blueparrot, Magicpole and others (apologies to any I’ve left out) in anyway hypocritical.
I find their train of thought in the unfolding of events logical.

I also pointed out in there, much like you have in here, that as there are several nuances that influenced people to vote Tory and Brexit in the Brexit elections and referendum, so also are there many reasons for people who are not lefty nationalists to vote SNP in Scotland.

I find your post a very fair summation. I find it refreshing, your admittance to bewilderment at the meaning of British. I’m Irish so assumed it was something that I would just not get, but I’ve asked the question of British people several times and never got what I considered a satisfactory answer.

You’re English. That’s fine. Own it.

I always considered British, something Irish and Scottish people get called when they did something good like winning a medal, otherwise they were still Scottish or Irish (NI).

As I said. Whatever you’re personal beliefs, I find your post to Saddleworth fair.
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I’m trying to remember how it felt before all this to be proud to be British (and having spent most of my formative years living in the north of England, that is how I felt rather than Scottish). It was something about heritage, about my view that we were an open nation looking outward to the rest of the world, punching above our weight in commerce, science, education, having a voice on a worldwide stage. Loving the countryside and the people. Being proud of our role in WW2, respecting the selflessness Of those that gave their lives for their country. Mrs S has several relatives that died in WW1. Sporting excellence came into it. Nothing particularly intellectual and if I’m honest, not particularly questioning or critical of the many darker episodes in our history Including the treatment of Ireland. i Was pretty much full on during my working life, that and bringing up three kids expended almost 100% energy and I certainly only took a passing interest in politics Which have always been pretty much centre. Thatcher appalled me. Major and Blair didn’t.

since taking Early retirement six years ago I have read a lot, travelled a lot and thought a great deal more about the nature of politics in the U.K. which has lead me to where I am today. My guess would be that every definition of British would be different according to the experience and history of the person trying to describe it.
sorry for the ramble.
 
Lordy, INEOS getting grief about not building in the UK as promised.

‘Building the vehicle in Britain was always our intention and the plan was fully costed and deliverable. Of course, we understand there will be disappointment in the UK. But the business case for Hambach was overwhelming...’ @INEOS

Narrator: Germany is in the Single Market.
 
BobKowalski said:
Honestly, you have to laugh...

‘INEOS owned by billionaire Brexit backer Jim Ratcliffe officially end plan to build new Grenadier car in UK in Bridgend will be built in Hambach, in France, it announces...’ @BBC
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Would that be the leading Brexiteer that lives in Monaco?

Seems to be a bit of a theme that the most vocal Brexiteers spend much of their time outside the UK. Even on here the most outspoken proponents of the UK isolating itself from the rest of Europe (aka taking back control) spend their time in places like Brazil, Spain and Cyprus and it's the poor sods left here that have to deal with the shit that will happen next month.
 
Johnson a year ago...crying here.

“Today’s announcement from @INEOS will deliver hundreds of new jobs in Bridgend and is a vote of confidence in UK expertise, making sure we keep our status as a pioneer in new vehicle technologies." – PM @BorisJohnson

 
west didsblue said:
Would that be the leading Brexiteer that lives in Monaco?

Seems to be a bit of a theme that the most vocal Brexiteers spend much of their time outside the UK. Even on here the most outspoken proponents of the UK isolating itself from the rest of Europe (aka taking back control) spend their time in places like Brazil, Spain and Cyprus and it's the poor sods left here that have to deal with the shit that will happen next month.
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It was always about the tax laws and declarations to the Eu .......


the Leavers just couldn't see it ....... there are none so blind that cannot see.
 
west didsblue said:
Would that be the leading Brexiteer that lives in Monaco?

Seems to be a bit of a theme that the most vocal Brexiteers spend much of their time outside the UK. Even on here the most outspoken proponents of the UK isolating itself from the rest of Europe (aka taking back control) spend their time in places like Brazil, Spain and Cyprus and it's the poor sods left here that have to deal with the shit that will happen next month.
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Ah, the faux patriots.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
It mostly stems from the irritance of the "you all voted brexit because you all hate mimmigrants!" line that is oft totted out. I imagine it would be equally as ignorant and irritating to Scottish citizens should Scotland gain independence from the UK and being told "you all only voted to leave the UK because you all hate the English!" Just like brexit, it trivialises the reasons by claiming it was a decision of ignorance and hatred and it's often not the case.

My premise has always been that the purpose of Government/Parliament is to enact the will of it's people. It's why the line in the GFA about how should the people of NI determine an express desire to reunify with Ireland the UK Government will not stand in the way of it. (which is also why I was so surprised and disgusted at the actions of 'my' own Parliamentarians regarding brexit in recent years.)

I'm the same when it comes to Irish/Northern Ireland and the topic of reunification. How people identify themselves and see themselves, be it whatever identity they choose to focus on; sexual, gender, nationality etc is no concern of mine so long as it IS their decision and not one forced upon them by others and badgered to willingly accept using coercion or most of the times these days, shaming tactics.

I wasn't born when England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland unified to form the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (to refer to it at it's most collective form) just as I wasn't when the nation was asked about EEC membership or when we co-signed the EU into existance. My view is that once people collectively feel that a union has lost its relevance or has lost the support of the people, its continuance should be questioned. Same in regards to wishing to reform it. Politicians are still far too controlling in my view, but we're chipping away at it, slowly.
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And I’ve always said good luck to you all. Hopefully not at our expense though.
One thing Saddleworth touched on is that the UK is harder to get out of than the EU.

I won’t derail the thread with my extensive thoughts on that matter.

Suffice to say Ireland is testament to that and we currently have more riding on Brexit than we ought to have as a result of partition.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
And I’ve always said good luck to you all. Hopefully not at our expense though.
One thing Saddleworth touched on is that the UK is harder to get out of than the EU.

I won’t derail the thread with my extensive thoughts on that matter.

Suffice to say Ireland is testament to that and we currently have more riding on Brexit than we ought to have as a result of partition.
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*waves*
 
Oy vey...

‘I understand Johnson wanted Macron & Merkel to join his phone call with UVL last night, but she rejected the idea’. @eurasiagrp

Can’t believe that the request was refused without prior agreement with Macron and Merkel
 
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