Another new Brexit thread

[ganganvince]

But we don't have to accept it. I'm not accepting something that was sold on absolutely outrageous lies and will absolutely have nothing but negative effects on all of our lives.

Unfortunately that is a recurring theme with the serial losers Brexit, Indy ref and 2019 election they have more in common with Trump than they care to admit

 

[twosips]

Unfortunately that is a recurring theme with the serial losers Brexit, Indy ref and 2019 election they have more in common with Trump than they care to admit

But it was literally proven that it was sold on lies. Do you honestly think that is fine? Do you think we should throw ourselves off the cliff anyway? Why?

 

[Ancient Citizen]

So what are you suggesting you or others do about it? Stage a fucking coup? The simple fact is that unless there was a General Election coming up and a chance to vote someone else in, there's absolutely nothing you can do and it's now in the hands of the politicians so I'm not sure what your point is when you say you can't accept it, because as much as you don't want to accept it, spouting off about it on here won't influence what happens over the next few weeks anyway.

I suppose they can walk around wearing a furious expression, that may help;)

 

[ganganvince]

But it was literally proven that it was sold on lies. Do you honestly think that is fine? Do you think we should throw ourselves off the cliff anyway? Why?

As is every vote/election, the alternative is China/Russia style of government would you prefer that?

 

[Metal Biker]

The vast majority had no idea what they were voting for, yet they still voted for it anyway. I think that says a lot tbh.

4 years on and we're still seeing this shite being spouted? I do hope you are including those who voted to remain in that assessment.

 

[M18CTID]

I suppose they can walk around wearing a furious expression, that may help;)

I just don't understand what he means about not accepting it and not taking it lying down because there's literally fuck all he can do about it. It's like hearing tomorrow's team news and Pep has put Foden on the bench, and then saying you're not accepting it ffs! Complain about it by all means but there's nothing you can do about it.

 

[M18CTID]

But it was literally proven that it was sold on lies. Do you honestly think that is fine? Do you think we should throw ourselves off the cliff anyway? Why?

There were lies told on both sides. Both campaigns were a fucking shit show. I'm still waiting for Osborne to stick 2p on my income tax, given that he said he was going to do it the very next morning if Leave won.

 

[BobKowalski]

As is every vote/election, the alternative is China/Russia style of government would you prefer that?

You fight, campaign, speak out, organise, demonstrate and seek to overturn an outcome you disagree with.

Decisions whether through Govt actions or via direct referendum are never set in stone, they are subject to changing events, changing mood of the electorate, greater realisation and understanding of the core issue etc.

 

[Metal Biker]

But it was literally proven that it was sold on lies. Do you honestly think that is fine? Do you think we should throw ourselves off the cliff anyway? Why?

Today is going to be a fun day, I can tell.

 

[ganganvince]

You fight, campaign, speak out, organise, demonstrate and seek to overturn an outcome you disagree with.

Decisions whether through Govt actions or via direct referendum are never set in stone, they are subject to changing events, changing mood of the electorate, greater realisation and understanding of the core issue etc.

Used to believe that when I was a student then I grew up

 

[somapop]

Tried to steer clear of this thread, partly because I've had enough on my plate over the past couple of years (and especially this one) and also because I too don't feel particularly well versed in the motions of all this.
I know a lot of friends on facebook have been trading pretty harsh insults (and that happened political with Corbyn & the Tories) and can see the damage that's causing to friendships and relationships. Certainly not the way to win people over or discuss as adults.
Awful mess much of it. Calling half the country thick, gammon, nazi cunts isn't the best way to win people over to your side. Same applies on the right (although the nature of FB means I don't see much of that).

I've a very good friend and he was so utterly anti tory over the years due to Thatcher (his dad was a miner and eventually took his own life) but he (and his brother) both voted tories this time because of Brexit. In no way racist and I like to think he's fair in his thinking (middle ground/compromising...'centrist' in the main which too has become a dirty word).
He's still clinging on to the idea that Brexit will be a success, but I'm not getting those same vibes.
I voted remain, really as I liked the free movement idea (but understand there must be a discussion over immigration numbers) and like the fact Manchester seemed to get an awful amount of projects built through EU money (will this London centric country continue with that in the future? I'm not so sure).

I feel like the the UK has gone a bit Giuliani of late. Flashing representatives from nook and cranny countries we hope to do trade with and going full on Aussie style (with a warning form the ex Aussie PM) isn't a good look.

That's where I'm at...not at all positive. If there was a survey on here at the moment what do you think the results of positive vs negative would currently be?

Anyone on here who could assuage my current low confidence over this? I actually feel guilty for feeling impartial on this but this is down to me not knowing enough about either the positives or negatives ramifications of Brexit (never mind a no deal).

Thanks.

 

[journolud]

4 years on and we're still seeing this shite being spouted? I do hope you are including those who voted to remain in that assessment.

How many different versions of remain do you think there might have been?

 

[BobKowalski]

Used to believe that when I was a student then I grew up

Then you missed out. Brexit itself was the result of a decades long campaign by the print media, of hostility to a Europe and anti-immigration sentiment. Tories themselves have long been hostile to Europe and Europeans at a grass roots level.

There are many ways to effect change. Sitting there passively isn’t one of them.

 

[stonerblue]

Yep. Though tbh i've always felt that 99.9999% of us were just not qualified or educated enough to vote on an issue as complicated as this at all. I think Cameron's government were genuinely criminal putting this to the public. I consider myself an intelligent person, but of course I'm not an expert on the wide reaching economic and geopolitical effects that leaving the EU would have. Hardly any of us are! Especially back then! Anyone says otherwise is either genuinely in the 0.0001% (if it's even that) or just a fucking liar.

Of course it was too complicated an issue to be sold to the public intelligently, so it was just boiled down to 'do u want money to go to foriners or to british hospitals', a big fat lie of course, and dressed up in not-even-subtle racist undertones. For better or for worse, these sort of decisions should always be left to the elected government, or at least those with actual understanding of potential effects. It's like us voting on the next step a surgeon should take ffs. Still angry thinking about it.

nailed it there.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

Today is going to be a fun day, I can tell.

He is right though, it was built on lies

 

[dave_blue12]

4 years on and we're still seeing this shite being spouted? I do hope you are including those who vote to remain in that assessment.

That is absolutely true. The vast majority of people who voted regardless of the way they voted did not understand the ramifications of what they were voting for and according to the opinion polls many who voted leave are now starting to understand the folly of that decision.

But as has been pointed out before the better educated and potentially better informed voted to remain.

Cameron and the Tory Party generally have a lot to answer for.

As does Corbyn, given his lukewarm support for remain. Indeed it could be argued that had Corbyn got enthusiastically behind the remain campaign then the vote could have been easily won.

But we are where we are and will have to make the best of it. I do however live in hope more than expectation that those who foisted this situation upon us through their lies and skullduggery will be brought to book. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

Yep. Though tbh i've always felt that 99.9999% of us were just not qualified or educated enough to vote on an issue as complicated as this at all. I think Cameron's government were genuinely criminal putting this to the public. I consider myself an intelligent person, but of course I'm not an expert on the wide reaching economic and geopolitical effects that leaving the EU would have. Hardly any of us are! Especially back then! Anyone says otherwise is either genuinely in the 0.0001% (if it's even that) or just a fucking liar.

Of course it was too complicated an issue to be sold to the public intelligently, so it was just boiled down to 'do u want money to go to foriners or to british hospitals', a big fat lie of course, and dressed up in not-even-subtle racist undertones. For better or for worse, these sort of decisions should always be left to the elected government, or at least those with actual understanding of potential effects. It's like us voting on the next step a surgeon should take ffs. Still angry thinking about it.

Post of the year for me that

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

You fight, campaign, speak out, organise, demonstrate and seek to overturn an outcome you disagree with.

Decisions whether through Govt actions or via direct referendum are never set in stone, they are subject to changing events, changing mood of the electorate, greater realisation and understanding of the core issue etc.

How do you think it's going so far?

 

[stonerblue]

4 years on and we're still seeing this shite being spouted? I do hope you are including those who voted to remain in that assessment.

He included us all, apart from 0.00001%. And he's right.
You gonna tell me you were always au-fait with trade agreements, lpf, gfa, taxes, security, fucking fishing, wto rules etc etc? If you were then consider yourself part of the 0.000001% and give yerself a pat on the back.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

That is absolutely true. The vast majority of people who voted regardless of the way they voted did not understand the ramifications of what they were voting for and according to the opinion polls many who voted leave are now starting to understand the folly of that decision.

But as has been pointed out before the better educated and potentially better informed voted to remain.

Cameron and the Tory Party generally have a lot to answer for.

As does Corbyn, given his lukewarm support for remain. Indeed it could be argued that had Corbyn got enthusiastically behind the remain campaign then the vote could have been easily won.

But we are where we are and will have to make the best of it. I do however live in hope more than expectation that those who foisted this situation upon us through their lies and skullduggery will be brought to book. I'm not holding my breath.

A lot of the problem stems from giving thick people a vote. Surely if just the better educated were allowed one we wouldn't be in this mess and would be assured of a better and more democratic outcome?