Another new Brexit thread

[bluethrunthru]

Peter Bonehead spouting his usual bollocks again

 

[BobKowalski]

So ... are you in or out?

Just when I thought I was out...they pull me back in.

 

[Vic]

I rather enjoyed its lyrical flow and cadence...

I still prefer Henning Wehn's quip that the referendum question should have been, "Do you want normality, or never-ending palaver?" Whatever happens now, never-ending palaver is what we've got.

 

[Vic]

I think he is warming to the idea of a hard brexit, if his posts are anything to go by, give it a week or 2 and he will be kicking out his house guests, the RW media have turned him.

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I'm not sure if it's a serious point, but soft brexit was what was promised before the referendum and abandoned the day after. I'm now for whatever deal is now available - I accuse any who would oppose it of damaging the UK - but I'm not sure it would be good tactics for Labour to vote for it (unless it suddenly does keep us in a FTZ from Iceland to the Russian border). But that takes us straight back to the cadences of "conceived by charlatans and birthed in lies".

 

[Vic]

Peter Bonehead spouting his usual bollocks again

I'm disappointed she didn't actually say bollocks. And he must know it's bollocks.

 

[M18CTID]

What a load of hysterical nonsense that 2nd bit is

Never is a long time. Does Bob think this thread will still be active in 10,000 years time or that Brexit will even be a thing?

 

[M18CTID]

I'm not sure if it's a serious point, but soft brexit was what was promised before the referendum and abandoned the day after. I'm now for whatever deal is now available - I accuse any who would oppose it of damaging the UK - but I'm not sure it would be good tactics for Labour to vote for it (unless it suddenly does keep us in a FTZ from Iceland to the Russian border). But that takes us straight back to the cadences of "conceived by charlatans and birthed in lies".

If Johnson comes back with a deal, surely Labour aren’t going to vote against it? Starmer was implying last week that he needs to secure a deal rather than us crashing out without one. We’re in the last chance saloon here and save for the hard Brexit mob in Johnson’s own party and maybe a few stubborn people in opposition, I’d expect the majority of Tory and Labour MPs to vote for it.

 

[Ban-jani]

I'm not sure if it's a serious point, but soft brexit was what was promised before the referendum and abandoned the day after. I'm now for whatever deal is now available - I accuse any who would oppose it of damaging the UK - but I'm not sure it would be good tactics for Labour to vote for it (unless it suddenly does keep us in a FTZ from Iceland to the Russian border). But that takes us straight back to the cadences of "conceived by charlatans and birthed in lies".

Starmer promising to vote for the deal is actually great leadership.

His choice is make the government answerable to the ERG and no deal a likely option, which will damage the UK significantly, it may work for Labour getting into power in 2024 but only because of the shit show that may occur.

Or he could take the high road, vote for a deal that’s reasonable and allows free trade to continue, saving countless jobs and businesses and ensures the ERG aren’t the tail that’s shaking the dog.

It’s the principled stance and one that is PM material.

 

[GH64]

They won't vote for it. They'll probably all go home for Christmas and miss the vote. Starmer has basically said that any deal is a good deal, and that Boris wants to take us out without a deal, so the last thing he wants is for something sensible to be negotiated. Hard to know what he'd say!

 

[west didsblue]

Never is a long time. Does Bob think this thread will still be active in 10,000 years time or that Brexit will even be a thing?

Just 50 according the biggest Brexiteer on here.

 

[Ban-jani]

They won't vote for it. They'll probably all go home for Christmas and miss the vote. Starmer has basically said that any deal is a good deal, and that Boris wants to take us out without a deal, so the last thing he wants is for something sensible to be negotiated. Hard to know what he'd say!

He said he’d vote whip Labour into voting for a deal over no deal.

I know we’ve been treated to spineless lies in western politics for a while now bu Starmer seems to be someone who will stand by his words.

If he doesn’t I’ll stand corrected.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Please let me have an act passed by the Conservatives that has benefited the average man since 1956.

I'll wait.

Off the top of my head, TUPE 1981 (not strictly an Act tbf) Employment Rights Act 1996, The DDA 1995, PACE 1984, the Housing Act 1980 (doubled-edged sword tbf).

HASAW Act 1974 was started by the Tories In early 1974 and passed by Labour later that year, after the GE.

 

[GH64]

He said he’d vote whip Labour into voting for a deal over no deal.

I know we’ve been treated to spineless lies in western politics for a while now bu Starmer seems to be someone who will stand by his words.

If he doesn’t I’ll stand corrected.

He did say "subject to the detail" and that gives him a barrister's get out. I hope they all act sensibly when it comes down to it.

 

[GH64]

Off the top of my head, TUPE 1981 (not strictly an Act tbf) Employment Rights Act 1996, The DDA 1995, PACE 1984, the Housing Act 1980 (doubled-edged sword tbf).

HASAW Act 1974 was started by the Tories In early 1974 and passed by Labour later that year, after the GE.

And how about the 1972 European Communities Act? That was Heath.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Looking at the UK and US, it’s hard to understand how Boris and Trump got into power. It really does make one question if they are into huge hock with Russia.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

And how about the 1972 European Communities Act? That was Heath.

Good point.

You could also add the Clean Air Act 1956, the Factories Act 1961 and the Occupiers Liability Act 1984.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Looking at the UK and US, it’s hard to understand how Boris and Trump got into power. It really does make one question if they are into huge hock with Russia.

I can't think of any other rational explanation. The problem with democracy is it appeals to the lowest common denominator in society. All to often popularism prevails and the most popular option gets the most votes. There should be some way of weighting the votes of the less popular but obviously more sensible option to achieve a more sensible, fairer and more democratic outcome. Damn Putin and his democracy.

 

[Ban-jani]

Looking at the UK and US, it’s hard to understand how Boris and Trump got into power. It really does make one question if they are into huge hock with Russia.

I’m no fan of Johnson at all but he’s hardly comparable to that nutter, soon to be removed from, the White House.

He got elected because he promised Brexit and he had a man great at slogans behind him, in Cummings, whilst the opposition chose a truly woeful option themselves.

If Labour had promised Brexit and the Tories another referendum, the result may well have swung the other way.

I couldn’t bring myself to vote for either of them but Britain electing Johnson isn’t as bad as Trump, despite the fact Johnson isn’t good enough to be our Prime Minister.

 

[johnnytapia]

Good point.

You could also add the Clean Air Act 1956, the Factories Act 1961 and the Occupiers Liability Act 1984.

Marriage of same sex couples act

 

[Tb1981]

I’m no fan of Johnson at all but he’s hardly comparable to that nutter, soon to be removed from, the White House.

He got elected because he promised Brexit and he had a man great at slogans behind him, in Cummings, whilst the opposition chose a truly woeful option themselves.

If Labour had promised Brexit and the Tories another referendum, the result may well have swung the other way.

I couldn’t bring myself to vote for either of them but Britain electing Johnson isn’t as bad as Trump, despite the fact Johnson isn’t good enough to be our Prime Minister.

It’s pretty obvious that both won because the electorate found them to be more electable than the opposition candidates.
Whether that’s a healthy place to be I am not so sure.
To be honest corbyn was a disaster and Hilary Clinton just isn’t as well liked as people presumed.