Another new Brexit thread

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BrianW said:
Denmark is in the EU, and quite adequately socialist for me. I'd like the UK to be more like Denmark. Brexit means it is far more likely to evolve into a crappy, tin-pot version of the USA.

Our obsession - delusion - about being "Great Power" will be the death of us all. Perhaps literally.
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Denmark certainly has elements of a social democracy.

Most nations need to rebrand and have a reality check to survive.

Look at Japan for example.

There’s no issue with us spending enough to defend ourselves and our allies in NATO, supporting the population of the country effectively, without gallivanting around the world invading other nations like Iraq, on a whim.

If we go into this new Brexit world thinking it’s 1900 and we run the world, we’ll get slapped back down very quickly.

That said, we have the ability to make our nation a fantastic and prosperous country, we just shouldn’t sell ourselves to the yanks, model the economy on our Northern European brothers and sisters.

A competent and respectable leader is needed and the will to improve British lives, whilst keeping our defence to a certain standard.
 
stonerblue said:
Their last trip to Montenegro cost £80, flights and 4 nights accommodation.
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Then what? You just stand around not spending more money on anything or doing anything? Or had you forgotten that things cost money?
 
Rascal said:
No, I am suggesting that Greece could have acted as it wished rather than have to obey the rules of the ECB. Whatever policy it decided to implement would have been a matter for them, in this case a matter for Syriza as they won the election. What is the point having elections if you can not introduce your own economic policies, whether they are good policies or bad is irrelevant, it is was their choice and they were not allowed to do it. Austerity was imposed upon Greece and that led to the rise of the far right Golden Dawn.

Syriza refuted the curtailment of democracy and the claim of "collective guilt" made upon Greece and claimed Fiscal consolidation and sustainable public debt cannot be achieved in an environment of austerity. It is only under conditions of economic recovery that the necessary reforms can be attempted and sustainable solutions found.

They could if they had wished followed a Keynesian model of growth as a way out of debt rather than the imposition of austerity way out of debt that the neo liberal ECB demanded.
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Its acting as it wished that got it into such a bloody mess in the first place and effectively was bankrupt. That was a matter for them. That the loans that saved them came with conditions should surprise no one, particularly as similar policies were in place across the EU including the country that was doing most of the lending.
 
west didsblue said:
Which central bank?

Not sure what point you’re making but I think the Loans to Ireland Act 2010 suggests otherwise.
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www.ecb.europa.eu

European Central Bank

The European Central Bank (ECB) is the central bank of the European Union countries which have adopted the euro. Our main task is to maintain price stability in the euro area and so preserve the purchasing power of the single currency.
www.ecb.europa.eu www.ecb.europa.eu
 
Ban-jani said:
I wouldn’t say the EU is neoliberal, I think that term is thrown around faster than the same people Chuck “fascist” at those they disagree with.

Its certainly a liberal bloc, and within liberalism you get capitalism from an economic perspective but there are controls in place that would make even American politics struggle to be implemented.

The buffers to ensure workers rights, the environment, health etc. mean it’s not neoliberal in nature.

Sure, it’s economically right wing but neoliberalism is the extreme version of capitalism.

It’s like saying Starmer’s Labour are communist.

I’d be careful taking definitions from the poster you mention.
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Neo-liberalism hasn’t really got anything to do with Liberal politics. It’s a form of economics.

It’s only liberal in the fact that it reduces/gets rid of the hard rules in banking so bankers can do what they want.
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
Neo-liberalism hasn’t really got anything to do with Liberal politics. It’s a form of economics.

It’s only liberal in the fact that it reduces/gets rid of the hard rules in banking so bankers can do what they want.
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There’s liberal social policies and economic, as you’ve pointed out at the end there.

The EU is liberal in both of these forms but certainly isn’t neoliberal.
 
blueparrot said:
You're wrong . Again. Fact is holidays can be very very cheap if you want them to be. Not for everone but for the majority of people.
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Yes they can be. But even then they are out of reach for many people and because it isn't for you, it does not dispute that fact. You are comletely disregarding those who do not enjoy that 'privilege' of being able to have affordable holidays whenever they wish through whatever circumstance.

The majority of people in the country don't rely on food banks, so in your view poverty must not exist. Your ignorance is astounding.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Yes they can be. But even then they are out of reach for many people and because it isn't for you, it does not dispute that fact. Your ignorance is astounding.
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Out of reach of some, not most.Thats's the point it doesn't mean they are for the priveleged which you said. Many, in fact most hard working families and people sve all year for thei holidays.Those hard working people would be rightly insulted to be labelled as the priveleged elite.
 
It is a little amusing to hear those that (and quite rightly) attack the government for universal credit for being too low to help families, now have mates on it that go away more than the average household and it’s funny to them that Bluemooners who work cannot afford to go.

I am in the camp that Brexit won’t help the poor, of course it won’t but is the sneering about holidays really necessary?
 
Ban-jani said:
It is a little amusing to hear those that (and quite rightly) attack the government for universal credit for being too low to help families, now have mates on it that go away more than the average household and it’s funny to them that Bluemooners who work cannot afford to go.

I am in the camp that Brexit won’t help the poor, of course it won’t but is the sneering about holidays really necessary?
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We have to be put in our place somehow. :)
 
blueparrot said:
Out of reach of some, not most.Thats's the point it doesn't mean they are for the priveleged which you said. Many, in fact most hard working families and people sve all year for thei holidays.Those hard working people would be rightly insulted to be labelled as the priveleged elite.
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I said it 'reeked of privilege'. That's how you were acting and how your attitude came across.

There are billions of people across the planet living in poverty who to them, travelling abroad for recreational purposes is a pipe dream. Even in our rich nation, it is an aspect of life that requires, for some, a considered financial decision. It is a privilege for people to do so whithout having those concerns and to complain about it being 'a little bit awkward for you' from now on', when the process is no different elsewhere in the world outside the EU, and then to present that whinge as some sort of detrimental aspect... reeks of privilege.

And that is where you are showing your ignorance.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
We have to be put in our place somehow. :)
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Politics isn’t a place of principle anymore it’s “us vs them”.

You’ve seen so called anti racists in Labour defend and even commit racist acts against those that disagree with them.

You’ve seen liberals and social democrats on here mock those who cannot afford holidays, because they don’t agree with them.
 
Ban-jani said:
Politics isn’t a place of principle anymore it’s “us vs them”.

You’ve seen so called anti racists in Labour defend and even commit racist acts against those that disagree with them.

You’ve seen liberals and social democrats on here mock those who cannot afford holidays, because they don’t agree with them.
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I've seen them lament about how the North is being neglected, then laughing and hoping that people lose jobs and livelihoods to "teach them a lesson" about voting for brexit.

They're just fake and hypocrites.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
I said it 'reeked of privilege'. That's how you were acting and how your attitude came across.

There are billions of people across the planet living in poverty who to them, travelling abroad for recreational purposes is a pipe dream. Even in our rich nation, it is an aspect of life that requires, for some, a considered financial decision. It is a privilege for people to do so whithout having those concerns and to complain about it being 'a little bit awkward for you' from now on', when the process is no different elsewhere in the world outside the EU, and then to present that whinge as some sort of detrimental aspect... reeks of privilege.

And that is where you are showing your ignorance.
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Ah those moving goal posts are back. It isn't what you said in your original post at all.
 
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