Media Thread 2020/21

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Pablo ZZZ Peroni said:
It was England Cricket Team in 2019
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Indeed it was.. I'm probably going to go off on a rant now, against the best advice of my medics, so pardon me if I ramble on.. I think anyone who has a go at reading this will get my drift pretty quickly..

Watching some of that show last night, I remembered a conversation I had almost 40 years ago with an Aston Villa supporting colleague of mine. His team had just won the European Cup a week or so before and beaming with pride he conjectured that Villa would be favourites to win the SPOTY Team Award for 1982. I smiled and suggested he think again, telling him 'You're not one of the favoured clubs.. no chance!', pointing out how Nottingham Forest had been treated recently despite winning and retaining the European Cup and also how City had been in the past too, in 1970. We had a friendly bet of 10p on it.. and yes, the prize was mine later that year..

The times since the inauguration in 1960 of the SPOTY Team Award that football has won the accolade have been regular but not often, with 12 of the 60 awards going to a few clubs approximately once every four years. Sad git that I am I just checked out that roll of honour against my own recollections over the 60 years or more I've seen SPOTY:

1961 Tottenham - first team to do the League and Cup double in 20th century
1965 West Ham - winners European Cup Winners' Cup
1967 Celtic - first British team to win the European Cup
1968 Manchester United - first English team to win the European Cup
1973 Sunderland - 2nd Division side which created shock of the century beating Leeds to the FA Cup
1977 Liverpool - winning the European Cup for the first time
1986 Liverpool - winning the League and Cup double
1998 Arsenal - winning Premier League
1999 Manchester United - winning treble of PL, FA Cup and Champions League
2001 Liverpool - winning treble of FA Cup, League Cup and UEFA Cup
2016 Leicester City - winning Premier League starting at 5000-1 odds
2020 Liverpool - first Premier League in 30 years

Now, all of the above are worthy awards given the situations each team faced. I absolutely do not have any criticism of the SPOTY Team Award going to them.

What puzzles me, going back to my conversation regarding Aston Villa with my erstwhile colleague, is how some football teams have been treated over the years, most particularly City.

Tottenham (Cup Winners Cup 1963, first ever British European cup success) lost out to the all-conquering West Indies cricket side in 1963. Arsenal's double winning team of 1971 similarly to the great British Lions side of that year. I can see the logic for why these two teams lost out in those particular years. And again, a similar logic applied in 1982, when Villa lost out to ice dancers Torvill & Dean

However, Nottingham Forest's treatment in 1979 and 1980 after winning and retaining the European Cup (and playing some sublime football along the way) was bizarre at the time, losing out first to the UK Show Jumping squad, then to the England rugby union squad. I've often wondered if Brian Clough's unpopularity among the FA's panjandrums was the reason for this snub..

Then, of course, there's City. Lickle old City.

In 1970, the FIRST English football team to win a European and a domestic honour in the same season (Cup Winners' Cup and League Cup) was overlooked in favour of the Nijinsky horse racing team.

In 2012, Roberto Mancini and the Premier League champions ended a 44 year wait for the title but, understandably had significant competition from the Olympic and para-Olympic teams that year.

However, in 2014 Manuel Pellegrini's record breaking team won the Premier League and League Cup in his FIRST ever season in England. No sniff of an award, with it going to the England Women's Rugby squad.

In 2018, Pep Guardiola took the League Cup and the Premier League, the latter with 100 points for the FIRST time ever but still no recognition, with the award going to the England Women's Netball squad (which, it must be said, rather fluked a gold medal at the Commonwealth Games that year..) And then the following year, Guardiola's team completed the FIRST ever domestic treble in English football but the England cricket team took the award after another fortuitous run of events in cup competition.

That's at least five occasions that City has been snubbed.. all the while that we've had to put up with UEFA and Premier League rivals attempting to undermine us with FFP charges and the like. Add to this the fact that various football coaches since Alex Ferguson won the inaugural SPOTY Coach of the Year Award in 1999 have been given this prize for no more (and often much less) than Mancini, Pellegrini and (certainly) Guardiola have achieved, yet none of them won the SPOTY Coach Award. City supporters get hacked off with it all for good reason, year on year on year..

Fair play to all of the teams whose success on the footy field has been recognised by SPOTY over the years. But really, the treatment doled out to City (and not just the SPOTY set-up) in not acknowledging ground-breaking achievements and the most glorious club football ever seen in this country is frankly appalling.

But that's what we've come to expect from our partial, often venal sports media which champions its particular favourites in these days of social media and click-bait..

Rant over, hopefully Matron will be round with the medication trolley soon..
 
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johnevans said:
Indeed it was.. I'm probably going to go off on a rant now, against the best advice of my medics, so pardon me if I ramble on.. I think anyone who has a go at reading this will get my drift pretty quickly..

Watching that show last night, I remembered a conversation I had almost 40 years ago with an Aston Villa supporting colleague of mine. His team had just won the European Cup a week or so before and beaming with pride he conjectured that Villa would be favourites to win the SPOTY Team Award for 1982. I smiled and suggested he think again, telling him 'You're not one of the favoured clubs . no chance!', pointing out how Nottingham Forest had been treated recently despite winning and retaining the European Cup and also how City had been in the past too, in 1970. We had a friendly bet of 10p on it.. and yes, the prize was mine later that year..

The times since the inauguration in 1960 of the SPOTY Team Award that football has won the accolade have been regular but not often, with 14 of the 60 awards going to a few clubs approximately once every four years. Sad git that I am I just checked out that roll of honour against my own recollections over the 60 years or more I've seen SPOTY:

1961 Tottenham - first team to do the League and Cup double in 20th century
1965 West Ham - winners European Cup Winners' Cup
1967 Celtic - first British team to win the European Cup
1968 Manchester United - first English team to win the European Cup
1973 Sunderland - 2nd Division side which created shock of the century beating Leeds to the FA Cup
1977 Liverpool - winning the European Cup for the first time
1986 Liverpool - winning the League and Cup double
1998 Arsenal - winning Premier League
1999 Manchester United - winning treble of PL, FA Cup and Champions League
2001 Liverpool - winning treble of FA Cup, League Cup and UEFA Cup
2016 Leicester City - winning Premier League starting at 5000-1 odds
2020 Liverpool - first Premier League in 30 years

Now, all of the above are worthy awards given the situations each team faced. I absolutely do not have any criticism of the SPOTY Team Award going to them.

What puzzles me, going back to my conversation regarding Aston Villa with my erstwhile colleague, is how some football teams have been treated over the years, most particularly City.

Tottenham (Cup Winners Cup 1963, first ever British European cup success) lost out to the all-conquering West Indies cricket side in 1963. Arsenal's double winning team of 1971 similarly to the great British Lions side of that year. I can see the logic for why these two teams lost out in those particular years. And again, a similar logic applied in 1982, when Villa lost out to ice dancers Torvill & Dean

However, Nottingham Forest's treatment in 1979 and 1980 after winning and retaining the European Cup (and playing some sublime football along the way) was bizarre at the time, losing out first to the UK Show Jumping squad, then to the England rugby union squad. I've often wondered if Brian Clough's unpopularity among the FA's panjandrums was the reason for this snub..

Then, of course, there's City. Lickle old City.

In 1970, the FIRST English football team to win a European and a domestic honour in the same season (Cup Winners' Cup and League Cup) was overlooked in favour of the Nijinsky horse racing team.

In 2012, Roberto Mancini and the Premier League champions ended a 44 year wait for the title but, understandably had significant competition from the Olympic and para-Olympic teams that year.

However, in 2014 Manuel Pellegrini's record breaking team won the Premier League and League Cup in his FIRST ever season in England. No sniff of an award, with it going to the England Women's Rugby squad.

In 2018, Pep Guardiola took the League Cup and the Premier League, the latter with 100 points for the FIRST time ever but still no recognition, with the award going to the England Women's Netball squad (which, it must be said, rather fluked a gold medal at the Commonwealth Games that year..) And then the following year, Guardiola's team completed the FIRST ever domestic treble in English football but the England cricket team took the award after another fortuitous run of events in cup competition.

That's at least five occasions that City has been snubbed.. all the while that we've had to put up with UEFA and Premier League rivals attempting to undermine us with FFP charges and the like. Add to this the fact that various football coaches since Alex Ferguson won the inaugural SPOTY Coach of the Year Award in 1999 have been given this prize for no more (and often much less) than Mancini, Pellegrini and (certainly) Guardiola have achieved, yet none of them won the SPOTY Coach Award. City supporters get hacked off with it all for good reason, year on year on year..

Fair play to all of the teams whose success on the footy field has been recognised by SPOTY over the years. But really, the treatment doled out to City (and not just the SPOTY set-up) in not acknowledging ground-breaking achievements and the most glorious club football ever seen in this country is frankly appalling.

But that's what we've come to expect from our partial, often venal sports media which champions its particular favourites in these days of social media and click-bait..

Rant over, hopefully Matron will be round with the medication trolley soon..
Click to expand...
2019 was the year we absolutely should have won it. As a team effort, it knocks all the others into a cocked-hat.
 
johnevans said:
Indeed it was.. I'm probably going to go off on a rant now, against the best advice of my medics, so pardon me if I ramble on.. I think anyone who has a go at reading this will get my drift pretty quickly..

Watching some of that show last night, I remembered a conversation I had almost 40 years ago with an Aston Villa supporting colleague of mine. His team had just won the European Cup a week or so before and beaming with pride he conjectured that Villa would be favourites to win the SPOTY Team Award for 1982. I smiled and suggested he think again, telling him 'You're not one of the favoured clubs.. no chance!', pointing out how Nottingham Forest had been treated recently despite winning and retaining the European Cup and also how City had been in the past too, in 1970. We had a friendly bet of 10p on it.. and yes, the prize was mine later that year..

The times since the inauguration in 1960 of the SPOTY Team Award that football has won the accolade have been regular but not often, with 14 of the 60 awards going to a few clubs approximately once every four years. Sad git that I am I just checked out that roll of honour against my own recollections over the 60 years or more I've seen SPOTY:

1961 Tottenham - first team to do the League and Cup double in 20th century
1965 West Ham - winners European Cup Winners' Cup
1967 Celtic - first British team to win the European Cup
1968 Manchester United - first English team to win the European Cup
1973 Sunderland - 2nd Division side which created shock of the century beating Leeds to the FA Cup
1977 Liverpool - winning the European Cup for the first time
1986 Liverpool - winning the League and Cup double
1998 Arsenal - winning Premier League
1999 Manchester United - winning treble of PL, FA Cup and Champions League
2001 Liverpool - winning treble of FA Cup, League Cup and UEFA Cup
2016 Leicester City - winning Premier League starting at 5000-1 odds
2020 Liverpool - first Premier League in 30 years

Now, all of the above are worthy awards given the situations each team faced. I absolutely do not have any criticism of the SPOTY Team Award going to them.

What puzzles me, going back to my conversation regarding Aston Villa with my erstwhile colleague, is how some football teams have been treated over the years, most particularly City.

Tottenham (Cup Winners Cup 1963, first ever British European cup success) lost out to the all-conquering West Indies cricket side in 1963. Arsenal's double winning team of 1971 similarly to the great British Lions side of that year. I can see the logic for why these two teams lost out in those particular years. And again, a similar logic applied in 1982, when Villa lost out to ice dancers Torvill & Dean

However, Nottingham Forest's treatment in 1979 and 1980 after winning and retaining the European Cup (and playing some sublime football along the way) was bizarre at the time, losing out first to the UK Show Jumping squad, then to the England rugby union squad. I've often wondered if Brian Clough's unpopularity among the FA's panjandrums was the reason for this snub..

Then, of course, there's City. Lickle old City.

In 1970, the FIRST English football team to win a European and a domestic honour in the same season (Cup Winners' Cup and League Cup) was overlooked in favour of the Nijinsky horse racing team.

In 2012, Roberto Mancini and the Premier League champions ended a 44 year wait for the title but, understandably had significant competition from the Olympic and para-Olympic teams that year.

However, in 2014 Manuel Pellegrini's record breaking team won the Premier League and League Cup in his FIRST ever season in England. No sniff of an award, with it going to the England Women's Rugby squad.

In 2018, Pep Guardiola took the League Cup and the Premier League, the latter with 100 points for the FIRST time ever but still no recognition, with the award going to the England Women's Netball squad (which, it must be said, rather fluked a gold medal at the Commonwealth Games that year..) And then the following year, Guardiola's team completed the FIRST ever domestic treble in English football but the England cricket team took the award after another fortuitous run of events in cup competition.

That's at least five occasions that City has been snubbed.. all the while that we've had to put up with UEFA and Premier League rivals attempting to undermine us with FFP charges and the like. Add to this the fact that various football coaches since Alex Ferguson won the inaugural SPOTY Coach of the Year Award in 1999 have been given this prize for no more (and often much less) than Mancini, Pellegrini and (certainly) Guardiola have achieved, yet none of them won the SPOTY Coach Award. City supporters get hacked off with it all for good reason, year on year on year..

Fair play to all of the teams whose success on the footy field has been recognised by SPOTY over the years. But really, the treatment doled out to City (and not just the SPOTY set-up) in not acknowledging ground-breaking achievements and the most glorious club football ever seen in this country is frankly appalling.

But that's what we've come to expect from our partial, often venal sports media which champions its particular favourites in these days of social media and click-bait..

Rant over, hopefully Matron will be round with the medication trolley soon..
Click to expand...
That's a great post. Forest were treated with contempt at the time because they knocked Liverpool off their perch for a couple of years. In fact they only started getting proper respect from the media for their amazing achievements after Clough's death. To be fair Villa were also not given due credit for their success. The football media is often behind the curve.
The worst decision was 2017/18 when City won two trophies and scored the highest ever goals tally in English football (second highest in European club football history) and the highest ever points tally. To give that award to the Commonwealth Games netball winners was taking the piss.
 
Spurs quarter 69 said:
After last night's dipper wankathon does anyone remember if Pep got coach award or we got team award on 2018 or 2019 SPOTY
Click to expand...

Some sort of God awful womens teams either hockey or netball(!) were deemed better. Do remember the Monday after the FA Cup final when BBC Breakfast collectively had faces like slapped arses and could only latch on to the ongoing CAS case. Impartial and unbiased, some hope!
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
That's a great post. Forest were treated with contempt at the time because they knocked Liverpool off their perch for a couple of years. In fact they only started getting proper respect from the media for their amazing achievements after Clough's death. To be fair Villa were also not given due credit for their success. The football media is often behind the curve.
The worst decision was 2017/18 when City won two trophies and scored the highest ever goals tally in English football (second highest in European club football history) and the highest ever points tally. To give that award to the Commonwealth Games netball winners was taking the piss.
Click to expand...
would that have been when Tracy Neville was manager?
 
I have't watched the programme for a few years now, although the reasoning to taking it round the country was to involve the 'audience', I've found the 'Britain's Got Talent' ethos offputting.

If I understand correctly the sentiment behind comments I've seen expressed about it from last night, it seems Klopp was a little graceless with some of his comments.
 
johnevans said:
Indeed it was.. I'm probably going to go off on a rant now, against the best advice of my medics, so pardon me if I ramble on.. I think anyone who has a go at reading this will get my drift pretty quickly..

Watching some of that show last night, I remembered a conversation I had almost 40 years ago with an Aston Villa supporting colleague of mine. His team had just won the European Cup a week or so before and beaming with pride he conjectured that Villa would be favourites to win the SPOTY Team Award for 1982. I smiled and suggested he think again, telling him 'You're not one of the favoured clubs.. no chance!', pointing out how Nottingham Forest had been treated recently despite winning and retaining the European Cup and also how City had been in the past too, in 1970. We had a friendly bet of 10p on it.. and yes, the prize was mine later that year..

The times since the inauguration in 1960 of the SPOTY Team Award that football has won the accolade have been regular but not often, with 12 of the 60 awards going to a few clubs approximately once every four years. Sad git that I am I just checked out that roll of honour against my own recollections over the 60 years or more I've seen SPOTY:

1961 Tottenham - first team to do the League and Cup double in 20th century
1965 West Ham - winners European Cup Winners' Cup
1967 Celtic - first British team to win the European Cup
1968 Manchester United - first English team to win the European Cup
1973 Sunderland - 2nd Division side which created shock of the century beating Leeds to the FA Cup
1977 Liverpool - winning the European Cup for the first time
1986 Liverpool - winning the League and Cup double
1998 Arsenal - winning Premier League
1999 Manchester United - winning treble of PL, FA Cup and Champions League
2001 Liverpool - winning treble of FA Cup, League Cup and UEFA Cup
2016 Leicester City - winning Premier League starting at 5000-1 odds
2020 Liverpool - first Premier League in 30 years

Now, all of the above are worthy awards given the situations each team faced. I absolutely do not have any criticism of the SPOTY Team Award going to them.

What puzzles me, going back to my conversation regarding Aston Villa with my erstwhile colleague, is how some football teams have been treated over the years, most particularly City.

Tottenham (Cup Winners Cup 1963, first ever British European cup success) lost out to the all-conquering West Indies cricket side in 1963. Arsenal's double winning team of 1971 similarly to the great British Lions side of that year. I can see the logic for why these two teams lost out in those particular years. And again, a similar logic applied in 1982, when Villa lost out to ice dancers Torvill & Dean

However, Nottingham Forest's treatment in 1979 and 1980 after winning and retaining the European Cup (and playing some sublime football along the way) was bizarre at the time, losing out first to the UK Show Jumping squad, then to the England rugby union squad. I've often wondered if Brian Clough's unpopularity among the FA's panjandrums was the reason for this snub..

Then, of course, there's City. Lickle old City.

In 1970, the FIRST English football team to win a European and a domestic honour in the same season (Cup Winners' Cup and League Cup) was overlooked in favour of the Nijinsky horse racing team.

In 2012, Roberto Mancini and the Premier League champions ended a 44 year wait for the title but, understandably had significant competition from the Olympic and para-Olympic teams that year.

However, in 2014 Manuel Pellegrini's record breaking team won the Premier League and League Cup in his FIRST ever season in England. No sniff of an award, with it going to the England Women's Rugby squad.

In 2018, Pep Guardiola took the League Cup and the Premier League, the latter with 100 points for the FIRST time ever but still no recognition, with the award going to the England Women's Netball squad (which, it must be said, rather fluked a gold medal at the Commonwealth Games that year..) And then the following year, Guardiola's team completed the FIRST ever domestic treble in English football but the England cricket team took the award after another fortuitous run of events in cup competition.

That's at least five occasions that City has been snubbed.. all the while that we've had to put up with UEFA and Premier League rivals attempting to undermine us with FFP charges and the like. Add to this the fact that various football coaches since Alex Ferguson won the inaugural SPOTY Coach of the Year Award in 1999 have been given this prize for no more (and often much less) than Mancini, Pellegrini and (certainly) Guardiola have achieved, yet none of them won the SPOTY Coach Award. City supporters get hacked off with it all for good reason, year on year on year..

Fair play to all of the teams whose success on the footy field has been recognised by SPOTY over the years. But really, the treatment doled out to City (and not just the SPOTY set-up) in not acknowledging ground-breaking achievements and the most glorious club football ever seen in this country is frankly appalling.

But that's what we've come to expect from our partial, often venal sports media which champions its particular favourites in these days of social media and click-bait..

Rant over, hopefully Matron will be round with the medication trolley soon..
Click to expand...
But do you enjoy other fields of BBC output of a non football nature on BBC TV and radio?
I do which means that the biased stuff we get from them is particularly annoying and the way they pretend they are fair and impartial when they are just as bad as those who do it for purely commercial reasons.
Quite often on Points of View viewers and listeners complain of bias on current affairs matters. Sometimes I agree, others l disagree but always l think 'just see the football coverage because you ain't seen nuthin' yet'.
 
Just opened Google to see a headline from some American sports media called 'Fansided'
saying 'Messi does the unthinkable in favour of
Manchester City.'
Even if true I cannot imagine another club whose possible signing of the worlds best player is described as an unthinkable act by that player.
It's about time our club dropped the laissez faire attitude to the crap thrown at us.
 
Mike Cledford said:
But do you enjoy other fields of BBC output of a non football nature on BBC TV and radio?
I do which means that the biased stuff we get from them is particularly annoying and the way they pretend they are fair and impartial when they are just as bad as those who do it for purely commercial reasons.
Quite often on Points of View viewers and listeners complain of bias on current affairs matters. Sometimes I agree, others l disagree but always l think 'just see the football coverage because you ain't seen nuthin' yet'.
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Agree entirely, Mike. I am a supporter of the BBC in general (especially Radio4 and the World Service) but like others who've posted here, I find the coverage of sport, particularly football and even more particularly City, to be tedious and partial these days.. far too chummy and 'all mates together, eh Wrighty?' for me, while some of the so-called news reporting about sport is vacuous to say the least.

Most of the time I ignore its football output, just tuning in MOTD/2 to watch us. I get what I need to know about City from Bluemoon or the City website or by picking up on the likes of Martin Samuel via the filter of fellow Blues pointing out useful articles on here.

My rant this afternoon was in response to the few minutes at the fag-end of SPOTY last night that I sadly witnessed. I was glad that Lewis Hamilton won the individual award, if only to prevent myself going apoplectic had it been that plodder from The Anfield Road Brick Throwers' midfield getting it.. it was bad enough seeing him and the amazingly dentate Klopp appear to pick up the team award, which set me off no end comparing the Scouse love-in last night to how our Centurions were treated..

As others have pointed out, it's not just been us who had the raw end of it all down the years, it's other teams too, Forest being but one as I mentioned. And of course, we've had all the other rubbish thrown at us (FFP etc) for ages now, often orchestrated by the likes of Roan at the BBC sports desk. As our broadcaster of record, I'd expect more and better from the BBC's sports output as far as we're concerned, especially after the CAS judgement. But they and the rest of the sports media f*ckwits continue to set the mood music about City as with last night's dreadful SPOTY. To see that unfold barely 12 months after we'd had the Centurions and the Treble Winners snubbed in consecutive years just made me want to rip a tissue..! Anyway, Matron's been round with the trolley, so I'm much better now..
 
johnevans said:
Agree entirely, Mike. I am a supporter of the BBC in general (especially Radio4 and the World Service) but like others who've posted here, I find the coverage of sport, particularly football and even more particularly City, to be tedious and partial these days.. far too chummy and 'all mates together, eh Wrighty?' for me, while some of the so-called news reporting about sport is vacuous to say the least.

Most of the time I ignore its football output, just tuning in MOTD/2 to watch us. I get what I need to know about City from Bluemoon or the City website or by picking up on the likes of Martin Samuel via the filter of fellow Blues pointing out useful articles on here.

My rant this afternoon was in response to the few minutes at the fag-end of SPOTY last night that I sadly witnessed. I was glad that Lewis Hamilton won the individual award, if only to prevent myself going apoplectic had it been that plodder from The Anfield Road Brick Throwers' midfield getting it.. it was bad enough seeing him and the amazingly dentate Klopp appear to pick up the team award, which set me off no end comparing the Scouse love-in last night to how our Centurions were treated..

As others have pointed out, it's not just been us who had the raw end of it all down the years, it's other teams too, Forest being but one as I mentioned. And of course, we've had all the other rubbish thrown at us (FFP etc) for ages now, often orchestrated by the likes of Roan at the BBC sports desk. As our broadcaster of record, I'd expect more and better from the BBC's sports output as far as we're concerned, especially after the CAS judgement. But they and the rest of the sports media f*ckwits continue to set the mood music about City as with last night's dreadful SPOTY. To see that unfold barely 12 months after we'd had the Centurions and the Treble Winners snubbed in consecutive years just made me want to rip a tissue..! Anyway, Matron's been round with the trolley, so I'm much better now..
Click to expand...
Don't worry you can watch Sir Marcus on the BBC tonight, for more red flag waving
 
1961_vintage said:
Reflecting, as is the case today with City, a lack of global reach commercially on the part of Forest. It is the main factor driving the bias.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I have always thought most biased media coverage against City was commercially driven. Negative stories about City drive almost as much online traffic as positive ones about Liverpool and United. There is money to be made out of knocking City not least by the pundits who always get asked back.
That said another factor (especially in the tabloid press) is the "Little Englander" card. We have always had the "wrong sort of owners" as far as most British newspapers (and their reporters) are concerned. Old-fashioned racism has played its part.
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
Agreed. I have always thought most biased media coverage against City was commercially driven. Negative stories about City drive almost as much online traffic as positive ones about Liverpool and United. There is money to be made out of knocking City not least by the pundits who always get asked back.
That said another factor (especially in the tabloid press) is the "Little Englander" card. We have always had the "wrong sort of owners" as far as most British newspapers (and their reporters) are concerned. Old-fashioned racism has played its part.
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i think British press have been having a field day on us since the baton exchange between Shinawatra to Sheikh Mansour
 
Kippax77 said:
i think British press have been having a field day on us since the baton exchange between Shinawatra to Sheikh Mansour
Click to expand...
Yes. You never hear anything about human rights abuses in Thailand these days even though the murderous regime currently in charge there makes Frankie look like Andy Pandy. It's not a story unless you can use it as stick to beat City with.
 
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