“The work of God”?

[Ban-jani]

for every francis collins or john lennox i could give you steven hawking or richard dawkins
whats your point?

My point is atheism doesn’t have a monopoly on science.

 

[tonea2003]

There’s much more evidence for Jesus existing than many other historical figures that are taken as absolutely existing.

Among atheist scholars, the vast majority thing he existed and was crucified.

Having historical evidence of someone existing 30 years after they died in a ancient times is seen as a given they existed, for any other person.

Atheists go on about evidence and measuring and accuracy and yet ignore the facts on this subject, the fact being there’s barely an atheist scholar alive who thinks Jesus didn’t exist and wasn’t crucified.

for the sake of argument will for the point of debate say a man lived and was hung on a cross in 33AD, how do i make the leap that this man is a deity

 

[tonea2003]

My point is atheism doesn’t have a monopoly on science.

but their viewpoint is clouded that it has to have god element to science which there is no evidence for

 

[BimboBob]

for the sake of argument will for the point of debate say a man lived and was hung on a cross in 33AD, how do i make the leap that this man is a deity

Because they said so. They being the people who want you to believe so they can control you. Do keep up ;)

 

[Ban-jani]

for the sake of argument will for the point of debate say a man lived and was hung on a cross in 33AD, how do i make the leap that this man is a deity

That’s your choice my friend. It’s a tough concept to arrive at, as I was an atheist and now I am not but it’s why it’s called faith.

 

[tonea2003]

On the contrary, that’s exactly what you’re doing.

The general perception has always been 65-70 AD, not 80-90.

However there is a significant movement in secular scholarship that is now saying earlier, because of finds from other authors.

“but dates from sometime between the late 30s and early 40s”

you continually ignore marks gospel cannot of been written before 70AD because of references to the revolt in the jewish/roman war at around 70AD
so obviously it cannot have been written earlier as the event hadn't happened

 

[Ban-jani]

but their viewpoint is clouded that it has to have god element to science which there is no evidence for

They’d disagree.

 

[tonea2003]

That’s your choice my friend. It’s a tough concept to arrive at, as I was an atheist and now I am not but it’s why it’s called faith.

don't do faith mate, you'll have to give me something more than that

 

[tonea2003]

They’d disagree.

bet they would, doesn't make them right

 

[urban genie]

Guy was a public speaker of sorts who amassed a following and pissed the Romans off who had him knocked off. Then a bunch of magic was added into it to coerce the uneducated masses into believing it out of fear so the population could be controlled.

The roman empire never actually died, it just evolved into something else

 

[Ban-jani]

you continually ignore marks gospel cannot of been written before 70AD because of references to the revolt in the jewish/roman war at around 70AD
so obviously it cannot have been written earlier as the event hadn't happened

Are you basing that on the book about it?

 

[Ban-jani]

bet they would, doesn't make them right

Nope, it doesn’t, but then it doesn’t make Dawkins right either.

 

[tonea2003]

Are you basing that on the book about it?

The Jewish Roman Wars

Three major wars were fought by the Jews for freedom from the Romans that the Romans had to win. Defeat could lead to the possible end of the Roman Empire.

www.jewishwikipedia.info

 

[Ban-jani]

Because they said so. They being the people who want you to believe so they can control you. Do keep up ;)

I’m sure St Peter, as the leader of the very first church, that was illegal, thought about his new dictatorship, when he was crucified upside down for his beliefs :-)

 

[tonea2003]

Nope, it doesn’t, but then it doesn’t make Dawkins right either.

suppose darwin is wrong then?

 

[Ban-jani]

The Jewish Roman Wars

Three major wars were fought by the Jews for freedom from the Romans that the Romans had to win. Defeat could lead to the possible end of the Roman Empire.

www.jewishwikipedia.info

I’m not denying the war didn’t happen, of course it did, I’m just questioning what aspect of Mark’s Gospel refers to it.

I must admit, I’ve not read Mark in detail for a while. I’ve recently reread Luke and John.

 

[Ban-jani]

suppose darwin is wrong then?

About what?

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Dividing the clothes happened according to the Gospel, with the Romans dishing them out.

Bones out of joint could be referring to being crucified, surely?

Dogs surround me is pretty generic but it doesn’t not fit.

Heart turning to wax the same.

Not sure about the others.

I am not really sure why there is an argument to be had about what’s described in Psalms, it’s either the biggest coincidence of all time or it isn’t.

How is it even vaguely a coincidence? Ignoring the poetic language, it's a fairly standard description of someone being persecuted by an enemy. So naturally there's plenty of things that "could" refer to events in another incident where someone is being persecuted by an enemy. And given the number of descriptions of the Jews being persecuted in the Old Testament, the fact that some of these descriptions might bear some resemblance to descriptions of the persecution of Jesus is hardly surprising. But the fact remains, at no point is this description presented as a prophesy about the future. The 'prophesy' is purely the result of someone who already wants to believe something pouring through the old text to find anything that fits their pre-existing beliefs. There are actual prophesies in the Old Testament, but this isn't one of them.

 

[tonea2003]

I’m not denying the war didn’t happen, of course it did, I’m just questioning what aspect of Mark’s Gospel refers to it.

I must admit, I’ve not read Mark in detail for a while. I’ve recently reread Luke and John.

The Gospel of Mark

The Gospel According to Mark is one of the four canonical gospels and one of the three synoptic gospels. It tells of the ministry of Jesus ...

slife.org

 

[tonea2003]

About what?

the price of bread, come on keep up