Another new Brexit thread

[blueparrot]

You appear to be talking about the future relationship, and I have no idea if
a government, of any colour, would want to change aspects of this deal,
but unless it's fundamentally different, small tweaks here and there are fine, if both sides agree. This walk away point was made because of a clause in the deal that allows both sides to do exactly that, after 4 years, as I said.
If we decided to do that, then we go to WTO, as this deal would cease.
If you're talking about after this term, then that's something that would be discussed, but I'd imagine a similar outcome.
All this is hypothetical though, and I can't see any of it happening.

That’s what I don’t-get though, yes its hypothetical, but I don’t see how you can’t see it happening. I personally can’t see how a new government at some point in the future whether , Labour, or Labour / Lib or Labour SNP, wouldn’t want to re negotiate or negotiate a new.
or different deal.
Even Johnson says this deal isn’t perfect so no doubt him or future consevative leaders will start tweaking and trying to change bits.

 

[Vic]

You mean this?

UK MUST follow EU rules! Leo Varadkar says Brussels has power to BLOCK Britain from market​

IRELAND's deputy prime minister Leo Varadkar has said that the UK's access to the European market is "not unconditional" as he sought to dampen the bright mood among Brexiteers over Boris Johnson's trade deal.​

I had more in mind their trawling for quotes about the betrayal of fishing. I'm still trying to work out the figures. If it's a reduction of 25% of the current EU catch in our EEZ that would allow the UK to increase its catch by nearly 50%, but we've been losing share for decades (way before we joined the EU) and I'm sceptical about how we would increase our fleet to catch 50% more fish.

In principle, I'd go for letting any nation fish our waters for fish that they need and just charge them for the privilege (with limits to preserve stocks). But then we did sell quotas and we couldn't just repatriate those rights - even the Tories would think expropriation like that a bit Chavez. "Foreign fishing companies that purchased UK quota in good faith would be very likely to sue if this was now taken away from them."

And expecting foreign owned boats to become "British boats" doesn't really make sense when "British trains" are owned by foreign (nationalised) companies.

 

[mat]

Back here in 5 years time then...It’s not a deal it’s an extension of talks.

 

[Vic]

Oh, you want me to post another source, in addition to the original one, is that it? No I won't bother, unless you want to subscribe to the Telegraph, which I doubt, but I can assure you, it's there.
So, can we move on from this pedantry?

Of course. I always relish winning an argument when someone makes a claim then thinks it pedantic to sustain the claim.

As usual, a full apology awaits if I'm wrong.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

That’s what I don’t-get though, yes its hypothetical, but I don’t see how you can’t see it happening. I personally can’t see how a new government at some point in the future whether , Labour, or Labour / Lib or Labour SNP, wouldn’t want to re negotiate or negotiate a new.
or different deal.
Even Johnson says this deal isn’t perfect so no doubt him or future consevative leaders will start tweaking and trying to change bits.

Absolutely, nothing is forever and obviously there were a fair few 'tweaks' to our common market membership as it morphed into the EU over the last 40 years. I think the EU has more pressing existential issues than its relationship with the UK over the next two decades, and I suspect the argument will likely become irrelevant rather than settled domestically. The EU may have to reform to survive, and rather than a remain campaign that only appeals to the minority I hope there is now a more coherent rejoin campaign that reaches out to those who need their minds changed.

 

[west didsblue]

“The result of the deal is that the European Union retains all of its current advantages in trading, particularly with goods, and the U.K. loses all of its current advantages in the trade for services,”
NY Times

Frost and Johnson have played a blinder.

 

[BobKowalski]

Absolutely, nothing is forever and obviously there were a fair few 'tweaks' to our common market membership as it morphed into the EU over the last 40 years. I think the EU has more pressing existential issues than its relationship with the UK over the next two decades, and I suspect the argument will likely become irrelevant rather than settled domestically. The EU may have to reform to survive, and rather than a remain campaign that only appeals to the minority I hope there is now a more coherent rejoin campaign that reaches out to those who need their minds changed.

It’s more likely the UK will have to reform to survive. The EU adapts and morphs with each crisis, the Covid fund allowing the EU to directly raise funds being the latest step.

 

[BobKowalski]

Good piece by Sam Lowe, who pretty much called the final deal six months ago. Comment is by Eurasia Group.

‘Besides managing new relationship, the Govt will also have to develop a lobbying operation to try and influence future direction of EU law. More Govt resources are likely to be devoted to EU than when UK was a member state.’

Britain’s trade deal with the EU sets the scene for arguments to continue | Sam Lowe

The UK may have won the power to diverge from EU rules, but the new relationship will be one of constant renegotiation

www.theguardian.com

 

[BobKowalski]

FT reporting EU require more information from the UK before taking "equivalence" decisions on financial services. In the trade negotiations, Britain did not manage to secure an "EU–Japan"-style chapter on regulatory cooperation.

 

[smudgedj]

 

[Vic]

I might have missed something there, but that's a deal to replicate the zero tariffs that we now have between the UK and Turkey, but it sounds like we will no longer be in a customs union with Turkey so extra customs red tape for any goods between us and Turkey. (Why does every other country want to be in a CU with the EU, but the UK makes it a badge of honour to be leaving the CU? I've heard of British exceptionalism, but didn't think it meant we had to go it alone in being exceptionally stupid.)

 

[peter.evans]

Why is it a brilliant end ? We are going to be worse off as a result. We are effectively still in the EU, just claiming we are not in name only, which suits me.Saving around 10bn in fees but costing us many times that figure.For what? No sovereignty was given up by joining or has been reclaimed by leaving.It is a complete myth ! There are no benefits as anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows.

It’s more likely the UK will have to reform to survive. The EU adapts and morphs with each crisis, the Covid fund allowing the EU to directly raise funds being the latest step.

And pay a lot less for it !

 

[mat]

Tax free Kebabs?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I might have missed something there, but that's a deal to replicate the zero tariffs that we now have between the UK and Turkey, but it sounds like we will no longer be in a customs union with Turkey so extra customs red tape for any goods between us and Turkey. (Why does every other country want to be in a CU with the EU, but the UK makes it a badge of honour to be leaving the CU? I've heard of British exceptionalism, but didn't think it meant we had to go it alone in being exceptionally stupid.)

It's hard to keep up - I think we've done about 60 new trade deals in the last few weeks as well as the largest trade deal ever with our EU friends.

 

[mat]

It's hard to keep up - I think we've done about 60 new trade deals in the last few weeks as well as the largest trade deal ever with our EU friends.

Liz Truss will be pleased.

Can't wait for her to announced free trade agreements with Turkmenistan.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Liz Truss will be pleased.

Can't wait for her to announced free trade agreements with Turkmenistan.

Tbf she seems to be the most effective operator the Tories have. Just quietly got on with stuff while everyone concentrates on Boris and Patel.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Oh, you want me to post another source, in addition to the original one, is that it? No I won't bother, unless you want to subscribe to the Telegraph, which I doubt, but I can assure you, it's there.
So, can we move on from this pedantry?

Well there's Thee Mail as well

UK economy set to storm ahead of France after Brexit transition

Britain will retain its status as the world's fifth largest economy after the Brexit transition ends and remain close to the top of growth tables, making it 23 per cent larger than France's by 2035, experts said.

www.dailymail.co.uk

And the CEBR forcast should he wish to pay a subscription to recieve their forecasts then he can read the report himself.

 

[west didsblue]

Well there's Thee Mail as well

UK economy set to storm ahead of France after Brexit transition

Britain will retain its status as the world's fifth largest economy after the Brexit transition ends and remain close to the top of growth tables, making it 23 per cent larger than France's by 2035, experts said.

www.dailymail.co.uk

And the CEBR forcast should he wish to pay a subscription to recieve their forecasts then he can read the report himself.

So the source other than the CEBR is the Mail reporting the CEBR projection.
Genius.

I’m sure the Express and The Spectator will report it as well. That’s two more sources.

 

[Len Rum]

Tbf she seems to be the most effective operator the Tories have. Just quietly got on with stuff while everyone concentrates on Boris and Patel.

Agreed.
Her photocopying skills (double sided) and thoroughness in spotting every reference to EU in a trade agreement and replacing it with UK are to be commended.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Agreed.
Her photocopying skills (double sided) and thoroughness in spotting every reference to EU in a trade agreement and replacing it with UK are to be commended.

If that's all it takes them I'm surprised there was so much fuss about how impossible trade deals would be. Still, I share your positivity that it appears so. I'm just glad this brexit buisness is all over now, bar a bit of internal angst Sir Kier needs to sort out in his party.