Another new Brexit thread

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bugsyblue said:
Fair answer and you’ve outlined the political reasons (not that I agree, I’d always prefer to be in the empire looking out than a small fish looking in) but what I was more interested in was do you think economically we’ll be better off?
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We're still trading with the EU, we're keeping all current deals with all the non-EU nations we had as a member (58 so far) and deals with non-EU nations that the EU currently does not have. In short, very little, economically, will change. But that was never my focus. Mine was the political aspect, and the weakening of the political class both here and in the EU.

In regards to Europe, we'll be treated no different to those from the Asian Continent, African Continent or the Americas. If we had not agreed a deal it would be a different story. We have though, one their own Commission and Council have agreed to. We're still a member of the Council of Europe, so we haven't turned our backs on Europe entirely.
 
BobKowalski said:
I do say.

China isn’t listening to the PM of Slovenia. The EU speaks on their behalf. But China also gets to talk to the top bananas, because it’s fucking China. Macron and Merkel can ignore talking to Johnson, they can’t ignore talking to Xi.

It’s a harsh world
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That reads to me that you are accepting that Germany and France are the real power brokers in the EU and have levels of control over the EU. Well done for that candour - others dodge that truth
 
Ban-jani said:
Depends what you want.

This is better than EFTA for me, only slightly but my preference would be:

1. Remain
2. This type of deal
3. EFTA
4. Something in between this deal and no deal (a harder Brexit)
5. No deal




2000. May’s deal
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Why is this deal better than EFTA/EEA?

And May didn’t have a trade deal. Her WA was the 95% the same as Johnson’s with the backstop removed and NI donated to the EU.
 
Ban-jani said:
Depends what you want.

This is better than EFTA for me, only slightly but my preference would be:

1. Remain
2. This type of deal
3. EFTA
4. Something in between this deal and no deal (a harder Brexit)
5. No deal




2000. May’s deal
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Fuck me - IMO Remain would be many 1000's ahead of May's deal;-)
 
BobKowalski said:
I can already hear the pitch to future foreign investors...

”Invest in the UK and every four years or so we will threaten to torch the trade deal with our biggest export market!“

It’s a winner, foreign direct investment will flock to our shores, who doesn’t love an unstable business environment where we fight an internal war with ourselves and then capitulate at the last minute.

Very concerned that you think 27 countries are dependent on our fish...I mean that worked a fucking treat this time around didn’t it? I mean, who needs fucking energy?
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I still don't know what £100m will do to enable British boats to find British crews to catch herring for the EU market without landing it in EU ports.
 
BobKowalski said:
I do say.

China isn’t listening to the PM of Slovenia. The EU speaks on their behalf. But China also gets to talk to the top bananas, because it’s fucking China. Macron and Merkel can ignore talking to Johnson, they can’t ignore talking to Xi.

It’s a harsh world
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In Economic terms, China > Germany > UK > France. (for now, at least)
So Boris is a "top banana" if Macron is.
And Boris (and Parliament, obviously) can agree a trade deal with Xi, Macron can't. So that must increase the size of his banana
 
west didsblue said:
Why is this deal better than EFTA/EEA?

And May didn’t have a trade deal. Her WA was the 95% the same as Johnson’s with the backstop removed and NI donated to the EU.
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If we’re going to leave, the best thing for me, is giving us enough space from the EU, with the maximum amount of access to the Single Market. The reason being is, I don’t want us to be a complete rule taker, those in EFTA, as Norway’s politicians said in countering to Farage suggesting Norway before the referendum, means you do get the benefits of SM membership but not a seat at the table. It’s remain-lite and therefore to see a country like ours, going down that route, isn’t something I’d want to see.

Plus some more control on immigration numbers is important to me. It just wasn’t as important as what remaining gave us in 2016, and still isn’t.

May’s deal kept our entire nation in the backstop until the EU said otherwise. It was atrocious to put a proud nation like ours into that arrangement. At the time I was scared for my job and said I’d back it if I was a MP, but fucking hell, I’m glad I wasn’t because in hindsight it was awful.

Now, the decision on whether the GFA can be adhered to with new technology at the border, will be down to the elected politicians, representing their constituents, in NI. Whilst they are in a backstop, our entire country isn’t, we have far more leverage to get them out and it’s actually democratically down to them themselves to decide.
 
mcfc1632 said:
That reads to me that you are accepting that Germany and France are the real power brokers in the EU and have levels of control over the EU. Well done for that candour - others dodge that truth
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Level of control is a different issue and not dependent on size. Dublin was a much greater driver in the Brexit negotiations than Italy.

With China and this deal, which as been agreed, it is about showing respect. Hence Macron and Merkel being visible. It says more about China than it does the EU.

Your habitual problem is always trying to fit circumstances and events into the set narrative you have about the EU. You lack the flexibility and the imagination to think outside this set narrative.
 
GH64 said:
In Economic terms, China > Germany > UK > France. (for now, at least)
So Boris is a "top banana" if Macron is.
And Boris (and Parliament, obviously) can agree a trade deal with Xi, Macron can't. So that must increase the size of his banana
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I think the less said about Johnson’s banana the better. This is a family forum.
 
BobKowalski said:
Further answer to your question. Personally, I’m leaning towards sceptical...

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I’d have thought rounding up wholly innocent people based solely on their religion, forcing them on to trains to work as slave labour in concentration camps, would be reason enough to suspect that the regime you’re negotiating with is probably not particularly trustworthy or morally acceptable.
 
GH64 said:
In Economic terms, China > Germany > UK > France. (for now, at least)
So Boris is a "top banana" if Macron is.
And Boris (and Parliament, obviously) can agree a trade deal with Xi, Macron can't. So that must increase the size of his banana
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Also, Macron and Merkel are part of the richest trade bloc on the planet, it magnifies their bananas. European countries are too small to compete individually with China or even influence China, only by acting as a bloc can they exert the necessary influence and even then it may not be enough.
 
hgblue said:
I’d have thought rounding up wholly innocent people based solely on their religion, forcing them on to trains to work as slave labour in concentration camps, would be reason enough to suspect that the regime you’re negotiating with is probably not particularly trustworthy or morally acceptable.
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Yes, so you need to exert pressure for them to stop.

Question then is. How? What is the best way to exert pressure? US tried a trade war. That failed. The European response is dialogue and engagement.

We all know the issue. Next step is a solution.
 
Ban-jani said:
There goes my vote for them again in the future, consigned to the history of the last two elections.

Goodbye my liberal chums, cheerio.
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When i was switched off from voting for Labour, I had a look at the Lib Dem’s and couldn’t get on board with them.

We really need some new life bred into Left wing and Liberal politics in this country. Labour are unelectable, Liberal Democrats are unelectable. There needs to be some new parties with some different and modern political outlooks from socialist and liberal stances.

I would never vote Tory, so I’m then left scratching around for who to vote for.

Maybe there needs to be a new moderate Capitalist party as well, to go a different way to the Tories?

The left in this country used to be a pioneering wing of politics who were ever endeavouring for the betterment of the social classes. Now they’re a group of misery wallowing unpatriotic moaners. Their way of trying to gain votes is to brainwash people into believing their lives are shit with streams of negativity with unrealistic ideas of how to votes; rather than actually striving for bettering our lives with positivity. It’s switched me off from the Left, even though I come from having many Left ideals.

This is one of the reasons why they keep losing elections (as well as taking us into illegal wars, stealing our pensions etc.)

Liberal politics has been dead in the water for too long. There’s a lot of good in liberal politics (not in liberal banking though), but there isn’t a party to get on board with. That’s why they are always a minor party.

This is all probably for another thread this, but something big needs to happen to oppose the Conservative Party. A proper shake-up with some new parties and new, positive, ideas.
 
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mat said:
It's done now.

Might as well close the thread.
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Indeed. Brexit has finished now.

Maybe a new thread should be created that looks ahead and updates us with the new things coming in?

Let’s not give it a negative name though because most of us don’t want to be wallowing in negativity all the time. Like I’ve said above, it’s one of the main reasons I’ve switched off from the Left.

Maybe something like “A New Great Britain Going Forward”?
 
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