You're looking at the Order Form for vaccines under the contract, not the contract itself. Try 13.1(e) of the contract.
It's satisfying to know mcfc1632 thought it was good work, though.
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Political relations between UK-EU
- Thread starter Ric
- Start date
It's satisfying to know mcfc1632 thought it was good work, though.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
She could have agreed that without shooting herself in both feet.UVL statement...
‘Step forward on vaccines.
Astra Zeneca will deliver 9 million additional doses in the first quarter (40 million in total) compared to last week’s offer & will start deliveries one week earlier than scheduled.
The company will also expand its manufacturing capacity in Europe.’
metalblue
Well-Known Member
You pay to avoid the non tariff barriers. If you are happy with trade barriers and restrictions to trade then you don’t pay and accept suboptimal market conditions.
The other factor is that we do pay. It’s just different. Instead of the Govt paying to remove these barriers, individual businesses pay in terms of increased costs, administration and even loss of markets in some sectors and the Govt also pays for costs in customs ie personal, infrastructure, red tape etc.
Right now this country will pay more, to trade less and at greater cost. There is not one single economic argument that can be made for the route we have taken. Not one, which is why we will struggle to maintain this position.
You can make a non economic argument, but you have no economic rationale that makes sense. Which is why, Norway and Switzerland pay to be part of the Single Market. It’s cheaper and more efficient.
You’ve asserted opinion as fact there.
Of course there will be some short term issues that may well drag on for some time (on both sides of the English Channel) but the beauty of a capitalist system is it is very apt at filling voids and finding value especially where there was previous demand that cannot be satisfied. I can make many an economic argument and you can counter it, but it’s all supposition at this stage. The trouble is when things change no one can really point to past performance as a future indicator, it all comes with a side of guesswork.
My prediction. Governments ain’t pulling back on economic stimulus any time soon, they can’t, the world is going to enter a post-war type boom - the roaring 20s are coming back and let’s enjoy it. Inflation and thus interest rates will probably go up thou so don’t enjoy it too much ;)
Not really seen much on Hancock's role in this. But best thing for the Govt to do on this spat between AZ and the EU for the better long term good was to keep their heads down, which they largely managed.Really well and patiently explained
Some were in a muddle a few days ago about whether "best reasonable efforts" would be in the contract with the EU - and in a muddle about what the clause means
Some still are and others unable to admit that they were
Not seen any sign of Hancock getting any kudos - have you?
Sorry - thought the answer was obvious in my reply - but to be more explicit:Appreciate the reply but does this mean you're happy with price rises for all of us?
You ask: does this mean you're happy with price rises for all of us?
Well:
1. Nobody is ever going to be happy with price rises that could most certainly have been either avoided or greatly reduced
2. Unlike some though I am very much recognising where the responsibility for the level of price rises rests and that is with May and Hammond as they prevented the required planning for happening during 2016-2019 that would have advanced readiness and identified the actions and policies required to mitigate issues
3. But - in the round I am delighted that the UK is free of EU hegemony and I am confident that the damage that a Remainer led government caused for the UK will be relatively short lived and more than worth it - so yes - I am happy
Does that help?
Oh, behave. It's petty.Yeah probably better we don’t bother with the £500m for vaccines for them, that’s what you’re saying isn’t it?
west didsblue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 2 Oct 2011
- Messages
- 34,061
You think it's opinion not fact that exporters and importers have increased costs with EU trade?You’ve asserted opinion as fact there.
Of course there will be some short term issues that may well drag on for some time (on both sides of the English Channel) but the beauty of a capitalist system is it is very apt at filling voids and finding value especially where there was previous demand that cannot be satisfied. I can make many an economic argument and you can counter it, but it’s all supposition at this stage. The trouble is when things change no one can really point to past performance as a future indicator, it all comes with a side of guesswork.
My prediction. Governments ain’t pulling back on economic stimulus any time soon, they can’t, the world is going to enter a post-war type boom - the roaring 20s are coming back and let’s enjoy it. Inflation and thus interest rates will probably go up thou so don’t enjoy it too much ;)
Really?
Now that's opinion...You’ve asserted opinion as fact there.
Of course there will be some short term issues that may well drag on for some time (on both sides of the English Channel) but the beauty of a capitalist system is it is very apt at filling voids and finding value especially where there was previous demand that cannot be satisfied. I can make many an economic argument and you can counter it, but it’s all supposition at this stage. The trouble is when things change no one can really point to past performance as a future indicator, it all comes with a side of guesswork.
My prediction. Governments ain’t pulling back on economic stimulus any time soon, they can’t, the world is going to enter a post-war type boom - the roaring 20s are coming back and let’s enjoy it. Inflation and thus interest rates will probably go up thou so don’t enjoy it too much ;)
It's Hancock turning down advice on using Merck so that Britain could jump the vaccine queue. I'm sure most Brits will approve.Not really seen much on Hancock's role in this. But best thing for the Govt to do on this spat between AZ and the EU for the better long term good was to keep their heads down, which they largely managed.
metalblue
Well-Known Member
You think it's opinion not fact that exporters and importers have increased costs with EU trade?
Really?
“this country will pay more, to trade less and at greater cost”
This is opinion, not fact.
metalblue
Well-Known Member
Oh, behave. It's petty.
Really? You’d be complaining if the aid budget was cut from £100bn to £95bn just to have a cheap pop at the government.
So is donating £500m of vaccines to other countries a good or bad thing?
metalblue
Well-Known Member
Now that's opinion...
Feel free to counter anything you disagree with
No. No matter who was negotiating, how could the extra red tape of customs and other non-tariff barriers not increase costs for imports and exports and thus prices to consumers? Unless of course, you're still in Cakeland with the unicorns in expecting cost-free access to the CU and SM.Sorry - thought the answer was obvious in my reply - but to be more explicit:
You ask: does this mean you're happy with price rises for all of us?
Well:
1. Nobody is ever going to be happy with price rises that could most certainly have been either avoided or greatly reduced
2. Unlike some though I am very much recognising where the responsibility for the level of price rises rests and that is with May and Hammond as they prevented the required planning for happening during 2016-2019 that would have advanced readiness and identified the actions and policies required to mitigate issues
3. But - in the round I am delighted that the UK is free of EU hegemony and I am confident that the damage that a Remainer led government caused for the UK will be relatively short lived and more than worth it - so yes - I am happy
Does that help?
Kazzydeyna
Well-Known Member
- Joined
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- Messages
- 3,142
You’ll welcome our joining the Asia-Pacific trading bloc then yes? Even more so if the US and China join it, yes?No. No matter who was negotiating, how could the extra red tape of customs and other non-tariff barriers not increase costs for imports and exports and thus prices to consumers? Unless of course, you're still in Cakeland with the unicorns in expecting cost-free access to the CU and SM.
You’ll celebrate that then, yes?
If the establishment in this country and the EU had been happy for the EU to remain a simple trading bloc we would still be in. The referendum if it had even needed to happen would have returned a 90% Remain vote.
We are now faced with the prospect that this country , within a few short years, could be in a trading bloc with the USA, China, and most of Asia as well as having a free trade deal with the EU.
That’s a pretty glorious thought, yes?
You’re welcome.
BobKowalski
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 17 May 2007
- Messages
- 21,511
You’ve asserted opinion as fact there.
Of course there will be some short term issues that may well drag on for some time (on both sides of the English Channel) but the beauty of a capitalist system is it is very apt at filling voids and finding value especially where there was previous demand that cannot be satisfied. I can make many an economic argument and you can counter it, but it’s all supposition at this stage. The trouble is when things change no one can really point to past performance as a future indicator, it all comes with a side of guesswork.
My prediction. Governments ain’t pulling back on economic stimulus any time soon, they can’t, the world is going to enter a post-war type boom - the roaring 20s are coming back and let’s enjoy it. Inflation and thus interest rates will probably go up thou so don’t enjoy it too much ;)
It is fact.
You put up trade barriers you inhibit trade. Which is why nations (usually) strive to reduce trade barriers to boost trade. If reducing trade barriers increases trade then (obviously) the existing barriers were inhibiting trade and raising barriers will do the same.
This Govt is keen to stress that all the EU rollover deals where done to ensure trade keeps flowing at current levels and not be inhibited by increased trade barriers. But putting up trade barriers to Europe is suddenly ‘the best of both worlds’. It’s like telling NI that remaining in the Single Market is a ‘tremendous opportunity’, yet removing the UK from the Single Market is a ‘great deal for us’. Both of these contradictory things are said in total earnest and people nod along quite happily.
This sort of cognitive dissonance isn’t healthy or wise and the amount of people willing to swallow this mind rotting shite in service of their political beliefs is disturbing.
It's already happening.“this country will pay more, to trade less and at greater cost”
This is opinion, not fact.
BlueAnorak
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 31 Oct 2010
- Messages
- 30,153
Just a thought, but maybe because we're not in the EU and we're being supplied from UK AstraZenica production facilities that are frankly F All to do with the EU.Well, that's been my question all weekend. How does AZ's agreement to supply the UK first fit with their warranty that they had no obligation that would stop them fulfilling the EU contract? Forget the "best reasonable efforts", unless both parties know the reasonable efforts are after you've fulfilled a conflicting deal with someone else.
The cut in the aid budget is by nearly 30%.Really? You’d be complaining if the aid budget was cut from £100bn to £95bn just to have a cheap pop at the government.
So is donating £500m of vaccines to other countries a good or bad thing?
Donating to Covax is good, but it's not exactly new money, is it? Not when it's an eighth of the aid budget saving.
west didsblue
Well-Known Member
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- 34,061
Fair enough.“this country will pay more, to trade less and at greater cost”
This is opinion, not fact.
However there are a few actual facts that are unarguable. We have to have our own regulatory framework running in parallel with the EUs (around 30 agencies I believe) where we previously shared costs, we have new customs infrastructure which needs manning, there are slower delivery times due to checks at the border, businesses need to spend much more time filling in forms when preparing goods for despatch, subsidies for businesses affected by all of the above etc etc.
It certainly is opinion that this will cost more than the net £9bn it used to cost to be a member of the EU. However HMRC have estimated that the cost of additional paperwork alone will be £7.5bn for business. Regulatory agencies will cost an estimated £2bn per year once they're fully established. That's ignoring the initial costs which for example will be £1bn for the chemical industry alone. Then we come to the additional transport costs which are already leading to empty lorries doing return journeys. Assuming this eventually sorts itself out, there will still be customs delays which add time and hence cost. It is my opinion that there is not a cat in hells chance that we will get all of the above for less than £9bn.
I can't think of a single thing in the CPTPP which will impact on my life to compensate for what I've already lost by leaving the EU, even before the financial cost of leaving works through to the shops.You’ll welcome our joining the Asia-Pacific trading bloc then yes? Even more so if the US and China join it, yes?
You’ll celebrate that then, yes?
If the establishment in this country and the EU had been happy for the EU to remain a simple trading bloc we would still be in. The referendum if it had even needed to happen would have returned a 90% Remain vote.
We are now faced with the prospect that this country , within a few short years, could be in a trading bloc with the USA, China, and most of Asia as well as having a free trade deal with the EU.
That’s a pretty glorious thought, yes?
You’re welcome.