Calling all Tories. Why do you Tory?

Ban-jani said:
Yes it does, it means those who vote Labour have avoided being deceived and those that voted Tory couldn’t.

Just admit it, you look down on the working classes.
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i would say it means that the majority of those who voted labour were not deceived and the majority of those that voted tory were deceived.

how does that imply i look down on the working class? it says nothing about class
 
The last election is a bit of a weird one to judge given it fell more along brexit lines rather than traditional political ones.

Long way to go to the next one though, be interesting to see if the tories can use the culture war as the replacement boogeyman to similar effect. I wouldn’t put it past them.
 
Ban-jani said:
Well I think you are wrong, life is full of opinions.

The difference is my side of the argument seem to accept your view whilst your side, not necessarily meaning you specifically, won’t accept mine as a legitimate view... without horrid accusations being levelled.

My view is let the best man win at the ballot and may the loser accept the result.
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actually you have spent the thread trying to say i am making horrible accusations when i am not.
i dont accept the best people win at the ballot, that is absurd, absolutely dispicable people win elections, as well as good people. however i do accept they have won and have a right to govern, but i maintain my right, probably duty, to still point out they are wrong.
 
Ban-jani said:
The study literally says those on lower incomes support the Tories more than those on higher.

Working class is a loose term, I will give you that but with more of the working class voting Tory than not doing and the Tory voting base being lower than higher income, I think we can be almost certain of my claim.
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that doesnt imply that the majority of the working class support the tories
 
pirate said:
i would say it means that the majority of those who voted labour were not deceived and the majority of those that voted tory were deceived.

how does that imply i look down on the working class? it says nothing about class
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Because, as I’ve shown, those on lower incomes voted Tory, by definition you are saying they are deceived and you are not.
 
Ban-jani said:
The study literally says those on lower incomes support the Tories more than those on higher.

Working class is a loose term, I will give you that but with more of the working class voting Tory than not doing and the Tory voting base being lower than higher income, I think we can be almost certain of my claim.
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The Conservatives undoubtedly made big gains amongst the working class in 2019, largely because of Brexit, but I’m still sceptical that the actual majority of their support is working class. Maybe I’m wrong, but would like to see a breakdown of their vote by actual numbers to back this up.
 
Ric said:
The Conservatives undoubtedly made big gains amongst the working class in 2019, largely because of Brexit, but I’m still sceptical that the majority of their support is working class. Maybe I’m wrong, but would like to see a breakdown of their vote by actual numbers to back this up.
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It’s obviously not over history, but I didn’t claim that, I said it was at the last election, which the studies I posted proved.
 
Ban-jani said:
Because, as I’ve shown, those on lower incomes voted Tory, by definition you are saying they are deceived and you are not.
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as i have said the evidence you have presented on this thread does not show that the majority of people on lower incomes voted tory.


however why are you assuming just because someone has been deceived that i would look down upon them? i do not.
the only thing i can think of is that you look down upon people who have been deceived and assume everyone else would think the same. i do hope thats not true and there is another reason because i would hate to think someone actually thinks like that.
 
Ban-jani said:
I know exactly why you did, you think you’re doing the right thing and I totally respect that.

10 years ago I was a Trotskyist but I was a kid and I now look at that time and think I was silly. At the time I was engaged in Utopianism and thought the rich deserved to have their wealth stolen.

Now I realise life isn’t always straight forward and capitalism is the best of two bad ideas, we just need to look after those that get left behind whilst continuing with capitalism.

I know why you think what you do, on paper it’s a cracking idea. The workers own the means of production and dictate what happens with the business? Sign me up... however in reality it has never worked but for a minority of industries.

Have you ever considered that conservatives think they are doing what’s best for everyone too?
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Give it ten years, your pendulum will start to shift the other way ;)

On your last point, no. If they did, they wouldn’t feel the need to deliberately shut down debate, scrutiny or the role of parliament as much as this current incarnation does.

Previous conservative governments and some members of the party, absolutely. Not who we have currently though.
 
Ban-jani said:
It’s obviously not over history, but I didn’t claim that, I said it was at the last election, which the studies I posted proved.
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The studies don’t prove that though. A higher percentage of a smaller group doesn’t make it a majority, if that makes sense.
 
meltonblue said:
Give it ten years, your pendulum will start to shift the other way ;)

On your last point, no. If they did, they wouldn’t feel the need to deliberately shut down debate, scrutiny or the role of parliament as much as this current incarnation does.

Previous conservative governments and some members of the party, absolutely. Not who we have currently though.
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You’re confusing the Tory party with conservatism as an ideology!!!
 
Ric said:
The studies don’t prove that. A higher percentage of a smaller group doesn’t make it a majority, if that makes sense.
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I know for a fact you’re a very clever guy... just read what you’ve written again.

I reckon it’s the booze!
 
pirate said:
as i have said the evidence you have presented on this thread does not show that the majority of people on lower incomes voted tory.


however why are you assuming just because someone has been deceived that i would look down upon them? i do not.
the only thing i can think of is that you look down upon people who have been deceived and assume everyone else would think the same. i do hope thats not true and there is another reason because i would hate to think someone actually thinks like that.
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It’s in black and white mate, total black and white.

The study literally said the Tories have more support from lower incomes and Labour higher.

I know it shatters your world but it’s true.

Socialism is absolutely dead and it’s why Rascal has gone from an intelligent, likeable guy, to an obnoxious old bitter man. He knows it’s dead, you should too before it’s too late for you.
 
Ban-jani said:
I know for a fact you’re a very clever guy... just read what you’ve written again.

I reckon it’s the booze!
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Let’s say the electorate is 100 people. 40 are working class, of whom 19 vote Tory. Of the remaining 60 (i.e. those who aren’t working class) 27 vote Tory. Which group forms the majority of the Conservative support? The 27 or the 19?
 
Ban-jani said:
It’s in black and white mate, total black and white.

The study literally said the Tories have more support from lower incomes and Labour higher.

I know it shatters your world but it’s true.

Socialism is absolutely dead and it’s why Rascal has gone from an intelligent, likeable guy, to an obnoxious old bitter man. He knows it’s dead, you should too before it’s too late for you.
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again i was arguing that the majority of the working class do not support the tories and it still doesnt
it claims that more voted tory than labour, but not a majority

it in no way shatters my world

any chance you could answer my question as to why you think i look down on people who have been deceived
 
Ric said:
Let’s say the electorate is 100 people. 40 are working class, of whom 19 vote Tory. Of the remaining 60 (i.e. those who aren’t working class) 27 vote Tory. Which group forms the majority of the Conservative support? The 27 or the 19?
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That’s not what the studies suggest though.

I will repost it:
The Conservatives are now more popular with people on low incomes than high incomes.
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pirate said:
again i was arguing that the majority of the working class do not support the tories and it still doesnt
it claims that more voted tory than labour, but not a majority

it in no way shatters my world

any chance you could answer my question as to why you think i look down on people who have been deceived
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Tories won more working class votes than Labour​

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