No, I never said I would, I asked you why you’re on a politics forum if you have a problem with arguments... it was a simple question.
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Calling all Tories. Why do you Tory?
- Thread starter Rascal
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mancityvstoke
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You got a problem with me do it in PM bossNo, I never said I would, I asked you why you’re on a politics forum if you have a problem with arguments... it was a simple question.
I don’t have a problem with you, I’m not sure where I have suggested that.You got a problem with me do it in PM boss
mancityvstoke
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I'm in a bad mood boss...ignore meI don’t have a problem with you, I’m not sure where I have suggested that.
NotedI'm in a bad mood boss...ignore me
bluwes
Well-Known Member
I don't want to sound picky but the NUR didn't strike in 1955. ASLEF did. Strikes post WW2 were very rare and the NUR hadn't been on strike since the General Strike of 1926 and before that it was 1919.
Of course there is no excuse whatsoever for how your family were treated.
Correct, you're being picky.
Bought my first house under a Tory government. Lost my first house under a labour government. Continual interest rate rises and the removal of MIRAS meant I could no longer afford the mortgage. So when people say Labour are the party of the working people, I say bollocks.
Have never voted for the Tories either but to me they are best of a bad bunch.
Have never voted for the Tories either but to me they are best of a bad bunch.
Rascal
El Presidente
Good questions.Why do you think this militant type action happens though mate? @bluwes experiences aren’t a one off.
“Pickets mark out the class line, but they must hold out at least the potential that we are actually trying to persuade or convince workers not to cross that line”.
Why do workers turn against their fellow workers? What is the psychology of it all? Is it the talk of “class war” and struggle that rouses the anger inside them? Genuine questions
Obviously we have The Miners strike and their strikebreakers are still despised and I can understand that legacy in the sense of the hardship that many families had to endure (due in no small part to shit union leadership I may add but different topic) and how that hardship was all for nowt but the intimidation was there from the start.
I think the whole point of a Union is that if a decision is made democratically to strike, then everyone in that Union should accede to the wishes of the majority and show solidarity with their fellow workers. I don't condone violence towards "scabs" but they do undermine the efforts of the democratic choice.
Why they turn against their fellow workers could be anyone of a million reasons i suppose, from hating the shop steward to shagging the boss.
urban genie
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In the past it was probably more a thing as communities, especially amongst some trades were so close knit, then someone crossing a picket line was seen as betrayal of that community.Why do workers turn against their fellow workers? What is the psychology of it all? Is it the talk of “class war” and struggle that rouses the anger inside them? Genuine questions
We don't have them close knit comunities where
most people work at a local place and then live in the same street or location as their fellow worker.
I have been on strikes in my recent times and non union members going into work have been left alone as they go in and tbh no one has questioned whether they actually are non affiliated of in the union anyway.
We even had a manager come out with tea and coffees once who was also a labour councilor, with no one berating them, which wpuldn't have been the case 40 years ago.
Ifwecouldjust.......
Well-Known Member
Where have you ever heard someone say “all the migrants...”?
Standard ... for Brexiteers and Tories.
Bought my first house under a Tory government. Lost my first house under a labour government. Continual interest rate rises and the removal of MIRAS meant I could no longer afford the mortgage. So when people say Labour are the party of the working people, I say bollocks.
Have never voted for the Tories either but to me they are best of a bad bunch.
The point about interest rate rises isnt true though is it.
unless you bought your house in the late 60's early 70's, in which case I tip my hat to a bloke who is 80 years old on the internet. Also MIRAS wasnt phased out until 2000, so i am surprised you still owed a great deal of money on a house that you bought in the early 70's when the average house price was just over 5K
Bank rate at year end (%)* | |
| 1979 Tory | 17 |
| 1980 Tory | 14 |
| 1981 Tory | 14.375 |
| 1982 Tory | 10 |
| 1983 Tory | 9.0625 |
| 1984 Tory | 9.5 |
| 1985 Tory | 11.375 |
| 1986 Tory | 10.875 |
| 1987 Tory | 8.375 |
| 1988 Tory | 12.875 |
| 1989 Tory | 14.875 |
| 1990 Tory | 13.875 |
| 1991 Tory | 10.375 |
| 1992 Tory | 6.875 |
| 1993 Tory | 5.375 |
| 1994 Tory | 6.125 |
| 1995 Tory | 6.375 |
| 1996 Tory | 5.9375 |
| 1997 Labour | 7.25 |
| 1998 Labour | 6.25 |
| 1999 Labour | 5.5 |
| 2000 Labour | 6 |
| 2001 Labour | 4 |
| 2002 Labour | 4 |
| 2003 Labour | 3.75 |
| 2004 Labour | 4.75 |
| 2005 Labour | 4.5 |
| 2006 Labour | 5 |
| 2007 Labour | 5.5 |
| 2008 Labour | 2 |
| 2009 Labour | 0.5 |
| 2010Labour | 0.5 |
Last edited:
All Labour supporters hate Jews and hard work.Standard ... for Brexiteers and Tories.
If we’re doing lazy inaccurate stereotypes, I’m here all day mate.
west didsblue
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It's a shame when facts get in the way of a good made up story.The point about interest rate rises isnt true though is it.
unless you bought your house in the late 60's early 70's, in which case I tip my hat to a bloke who is 80 years old on the internet. Also MIRAS wasnt phased out until 2000, so i am surprised you still owed a great deal of money on a house that you bought in the early 70's when the average house price was just over 5K
Bank rate at year end (%)*1979 Tory 17 1980 Tory 14 1981 Tory 14.375 1982 Tory 10 1983 Tory 9.0625 1984 Tory 9.5 1985 Tory 11.375 1986 Tory 10.875 1987 Tory 8.375 1988 Tory 12.875 1989 Tory 14.875 1990 Tory 13.875 1991 Tory 10.375 1992 Tory 6.875 1993 Tory 5.375 1994 Tory 6.125 1995 Tory 6.375 1996 Tory 5.9375 1997 Labour 7.25 1998 Labour 6.25 1999 Labour 5.5 2000 Labour 6 2001 Labour 4 2002 Labour 4 2003 Labour 3.75 2004 Labour 4.75 2005 Labour 4.5 2006 Labour 5 2007 Labour 5.5 2008 Labour 2 2009 Labour 0.5 2010Labour 0.5
MIRAS was completely removed by 2000 but it started ending in 99 when it was announced in the budget. I bought the house in 1996, mortgage with a 1% discount for 3 years. Come 1999 I'd gone from paying £302 a month to £420 with the loss of MIRAS, the 1% discount and the increase in interest rate. Basically, I couldn't afford the 40% increase so the house went. Also bear in mind that a lot of mortgages do not track with the BofE base rate, so even when rates go down the lenders don't always pass it on.The point about interest rate rises isnt true though is it.
unless you bought your house in the late 60's early 70's, in which case I tip my hat to a bloke who is 80 years old on the internet. Also MIRAS wasnt phased out until 2000, so i am surprised you still owed a great deal of money on a house that you bought in the early 70's when the average house price was just over 5K
Bank rate at year end (%)*1979 Tory 17 1980 Tory 14 1981 Tory 14.375 1982 Tory 10 1983 Tory 9.0625 1984 Tory 9.5 1985 Tory 11.375 1986 Tory 10.875 1987 Tory 8.375 1988 Tory 12.875 1989 Tory 14.875 1990 Tory 13.875 1991 Tory 10.375 1992 Tory 6.875 1993 Tory 5.375 1994 Tory 6.125 1995 Tory 6.375 1996 Tory 5.9375 1997 Labour 7.25 1998 Labour 6.25 1999 Labour 5.5 2000 Labour 6 2001 Labour 4 2002 Labour 4 2003 Labour 3.75 2004 Labour 4.75 2005 Labour 4.5 2006 Labour 5 2007 Labour 5.5 2008 Labour 2 2009 Labour 0.5 2010Labour 0.5
Fast forward to modern day, my current lender until recently, removed the 2.5% ceiling between base rate and their lending rate so they can charge what they want. Their current lending rate is about 5%
Not going to argue with you pal, but it's facts. Oh yeah, lenders immediately pass on all reductions in base rate don't they!It's a shame when facts get in the way of a good made up story.
If I could be arsed I'd dig the old paperwork out of the attic but it's cold up there. Then again, you can tell me the temperature in the loft as you seem so clued up on my circumstances!
west didsblue
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I think the point is that other than a couple of blips rates went down under Labour.Not going to argue with you pal, but it's facts. Oh yeah, lenders immediately pass on all reductions in base rate don't they!
If I could be arsed I'd dig the old paperwork out of the attic but it's cold up there. Then again, you can tell me the temperature in the loft as you seem so clued up on my circumstances!
MIRAS was completely removed by 2000 but it started ending in 99 when it was announced in the budget. I bought the house in 1996, mortgage with a 1% discount for 3 years. Come 1999 I'd gone from paying £302 a month to £420 with the loss of MIRAS, the 1% discount and the increase in interest rate. Basically, I couldn't afford the 40% increase so the house went. Also bear in mind that a lot of mortgages do not track with the BofE base rate, so even when rates go down the lenders don't always pass it on.
Fast forward to modern day, my current lender until recently, removed the 2.5% ceiling between base rate and their lending rate so they can charge what they want. Their current lending rate is about 5%
More than half your 40% increase was coming off discount and nothing to do with the government. I can see your upset about MIRAS but that was only about 10% of your increase
Mortgages not tracking the BofE base rate is again not the governments fault.
and interest rates in 1999 were 5.5% compared to 5.9% in 1996
By 2000 they had risen again to 6.0%
Agreed.I think the point is that other than a couple of blips rates went down under Labour.
metalblue
Well-Known Member
In the past it was probably more a thing as communities, especially amongst some trades were so close knit, then someone crossing a picket line was seen as betrayal of that community.
We don't have them close knit comunities where
most people work at a local place and then live in the same street or location as their fellow worker.
I have been on strikes in my recent times and non union members going into work have been left alone as they go in and tbh no one has questioned whether they actually are non affiliated of in the union anyway.
We even had a manager come out with tea and coffees once who was also a labour councilor, with no one berating them, which wpuldn't have been the case 40 years ago.
Appreciate the reply mate. It makes a lot of sense. So given your experiences do you think the more militant elements of unions are a thing of the past and it’s more moderate? Or union membership is more disparate across multiple unions? Or maybe it more depends on industries?
And do you think the effectiveness of strike action is damaged by a more moderate union? Or is a more balanced dialog approach with company management, especially if the timing on strike action is optimal, just as effective as a scorched earth policy?
metalblue
Well-Known Member
Good questions.
I think the whole point of a Union is that if a decision is made democratically to strike, then everyone in that Union should accede to the wishes of the majority and show solidarity with their fellow workers. I don't condone violence towards "scabs" but they do undermine the efforts of the democratic choice.
Why they turn against their fellow workers could be anyone of a million reasons i suppose, from hating the shop steward to shagging the boss.
Yeah that makes sense mate - I guess a lack of strike pay from employers creates that sense of “togetherness”. Obviously the miners strike was quite brutal for the striking miners having to burn furniture and the such to heat the house. I always wondered if union subs provide any type strike pay at all? Or is it just for the reps? Obviously it’s not bottomless but for a short term support mechanism as they won’t qualify for the dole! I don’t suppose Scargill had to burn his shit mind