City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

Esteban de la Sexface said:
Argue with yourself all your want pal.

We are part of a football group. The flagship. If and when the money goes it will need unravelling. Are you deluded enough to think the money is here forever?

So that's high street retailers and hollywood that have been used to augment arguments related to football finance. You're good value lads I'll give you that
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I doubt the money is going to run out anytime soon chap. If it does we are one of the most valuable sporting companies in the world. Thanks to invsetment. Which FFP tried to make illegal. We’ll be fine relative to 99.9% of other clubs.

I assume you meant the money in the game running out? Surely you didn’t mean when the oil runs out? If so, relax chief, there’s centuries of oil still to come out of the ground.

If Football wants to protect its’ clubs against financial ruin - in the event of the money running out - it simply needs to limit debt to around 10% of income. Any higher than that and a transfer ban (incoming) and wage spend to be managed down. Obviously entry into European competition would have to be curtailed until debt was below the 10% threshold. This regulation would be solely for the benefit of all clubs and would stop clubs becoming playthings of the poor and famous. It would no longer be possible to play the game with somebody else’s money (the banks) in a vain bid to buy success, as united,Liverpool, arsenal,Real,Barca et al have been doing for years until City showed them what intelligent owners could achieve.

Its a bit like having a mortgage. Nobody is saying you can only buy a house if you have all the funds ready and available but if you have a typical mortgage your bank wont lend you money to buy a Ferrari..they’ll tell you to fuck off and buy a Vauxhall instead. Sensible and prudent.

Like football should be.
 
Esteban de la Sexface said:
What would they be buying? All the clubs? Melbourne, Mumbai, New York?

Try not to be so sensitive. When that needs unraveling it will be an unadulterated shit show
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Fèck me, you have never heard of a business with many different entities selling it separately or jointly?

As I said before, if you think we are a shit show and it’s all going to go tits up, then you crack on, I don’t.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
I assume you meant the money in the game running out?
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Yeah - the sustainability of the sport - it's becoming less sustainable in my opinion. It has more competition in future from the likes of esports and given the current climate in the economic world they have to be extremely careful not to fold. Football won't go but if left unrestricted a lot of football clubs will go, in my opinion. Grass roots is pretty fucked currently. That's not good. Lower leagues, fucked. Not good. It's a house of cards. We're on the top. If it goes we do.
Your point about the mortgage is more about regulating financial institutions than football clubs. You can't regulate access to credit, or it would be very difficult legally I'd imagine.

If you manage in house - within football through caps and limitations then you reduce the need to borrow
 
Esteban de la Sexface said:
You also accused me of defending financial fair play when I did no such thing.

If City weren't as rich as they were you'd be completely different in your views.

I'd love to see the cross section of people who were complaining about Chelsea who now think its fine to have owners with unlimited funds spending in an an unregulated market, during a downturn

The arse is going to fall out of this fairly soon pal

If and when the money goes look at the shit show that will have to unravelled. We've been rolled up into some conglomerate group of clubs as the flagship. Are we even an entity in ourselves or part of the football group?

Imagine unravelling that if and when the money dries up?
But you can't see passed the end of your nose because fuck it, we're rich, fuck everyone else right

A racket but you're on the inside
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What are you on about?

City are a self-sufficient football club. We don’t rely on any owner investment anymore and haven’t done for several years.

You actually sound like one of those uneducated United or Liverpool fans who thinks that Mansour is literally buying the players for the club.
 
BolinCell said:
The only reason FFP will be relaxed is so the likes of Madrid can take the Mbappe's of this world on the never never. And not fall foul of the rules they strangled everyone else with.
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And UEFA can’t have little old City getting their hands on Harland , they would much prefer him going to proper European Royalty.
 
Esteban de la Sexface said:
Yeah - the sustainability of the sport - it's becoming less sustainable in my opinion. It has more competition in future from the likes of esports and given the current climate in the economic world they have to be extremely careful not to fold. Football won't go but if left unrestricted a lot of football clubs will go, in my opinion. Grass roots is pretty fucked currently. That's not good. Lower leagues, fucked. Not good. It's a house of cards. We're on the top. If it goes we do.
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Which is why the game should be regulating the amount of debt clubs are allowed to hold. It doesn’t have to be draconian (no debt allowed) that wold be impractical and possibly a restraint of trade as most businesses run on a certain level of debt for various reasons. But it should be sensible, at a level of say 10% of total income, give or take a % or two.

That way if the money does run out, or become severely restricted relative to now, clubs would still be relative liquid and certainly would not expect to have too many serious issues in furnishing the debt.

Unlike now where most clubs would be up shit creek without a paddle if the money ran dry - as we are seeing to an extent in this post covid world - because , amongst other reasons, the game chose to regulate precisely the thing it should have been encouraging - investment - and allow free reign on the precise thing it should have been managing - unlimited gorging on debt.

This happens in every other facet of life and business..I am allowed to spend my own money on whatever the hell i want as long as i have the cash available. As is my boss for his business. I’m protected from myself by financial regulation which stops the banks issuing me excessive unaffordable credit, as is my boss for his business. Which in turn stops us both from chasing an unachievable dream.

SImple and prudent. Football needs to be the same. We need to regulate debt and encourage unlimited investment (if the investor has the funds available without going into debt for them).

Fair. Simple. Sustainable. Good for the game.
 
What’s all this shit about money running out, we don’t have a stash under the floorboards ffs. The whole “project” was about setting up a global football organisation with us at its centre. It has worked and we are now a viable profit making business with no debts to service and the model is that robust it has and will continue to grow even during this pandemic.
The best news about uefa revising ffp, is a pisser really, their babies Barca rags Juventus Madrid are in debt, allowing them to spend is not a recipe for their survival, the whole point of ffp was to avoid clubs going to the wall, pmsl they have hopefully just loaded the gun and it has 4 good bullets in it, the summer transfer window will be the trigger
 
Kazzydeyna said:
It doesn’t have to be draconian (no debt allowed) that wold be impractical and possibly a restraint of trade as most businesses run on a certain level of debt for various reasons. But it should be sensible, at a level of say 10% of total income, give or take a % or two.
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But isn't this just financial fair play repackaged - you can't compete unless you already have revenue or get bought out? It's basically regulating to maintain the status quo.

I just think the fairest and most sustainable way is through limits on salary - through a league based cap system and limits on transfer fees. Agents are driving the greed and need to be regulated in a big way. As far as i can see they operate carte blanche and are protected and uninhibited to suckle off clubs like Liverpool who are blatantly misusing agents and getting bled financially by them
 
Ribchester said:
What’s all this shit about money running out, we don’t have a stash under the floorboards ffs. The whole “project” was about setting up a global football organisation with us at its centre. It has worked and we are now a viable profit making business with no debts to service and the model is that robust it has and will continue to grow even during this pandemic.
The best news about uefa revising ffp, is a pisser really, their babies Barca rags Juventus Madrid are in debt, allowing them to spend is not a recipe for their survival, the whole point of ffp was to avoid clubs going to the wall, pmsl they have hopefully just loaded the gun and it has 4 good bullets in it, the summer transfer window will be the trigger
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so the biggest clubs in the world are in financial trouble - and you don't think the money is running out. OK.
 
Esteban de la Sexface said:
so the biggest clubs in the world are in financial trouble - and you don't think the money is running out. OK.
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These clubs then should reduce their debts and thus interest rates yearly.

they can also cut costs by selling players which also raises capital.

These clubs still have huge revenue, they just dont want to cut costs.
 
Esteban de la Sexface said:
But isn't this just financial fair play repackaged - you can't compete unless you already have revenue or get bought out? It's basically regulating to maintain the status quo.

I just think the fairest and most sustainable way is through limits on salary - through a league based cap system and limits on transfer fees. Agents are driving the greed and need to be regulated in a big way. As far as i can see they operate carte blanche and are protected and uninhibited to suckle off clubs like Liverpool who are blatantly misusing agents and getting bled financially by them
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But that wouldn’t work. We have had salary caps before and clubs got round them easily enough (player X’s mum gets nice new house. His dad gets a lovely job at the club as chief sock pairer etc). It’s also possibly a legal minefield unless you want to cap salaries in every single industry. In which case how much should Chesney get paid for acting in Corrie for example?)

If we are worried about the money running out then we HAVE to regulate the games finances. Regulating investment hasn’t worked, that has actually limited the amount of money running through the game and concentrated the bulk of what there is at the top of the pyramid.

All I am suggesting is that we treat football like any other business, in any country in the world. If business X has the money to spend then they can spend it on whatever they like and as much of it as they have available. Crack on etc. If business Y has a smaller cash flow then they CAN go into a certain amount of debt to invest in their business of course but regulation stops them from over extending themselves.

No business in history has ever gone bust from having too much money in the bank. Every business that has ever gone bust in history has done so because it didn’t have enough money in the bank.

My solution would put football in line with the rest of society. I don’t feel it should be treated as a special case. Why do you?
 
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