Epstein / Prince Andrew / Maxwell

I would say the same about people who have sex with minors, given the sentences involved. I don’t see how that’s fair if someone reasonably and genuinely believed they were having consensual and legal sex that they should be punished on the basis they they knew.
Fair point, but also given the seriousness of the offence, I don't think it's too much to expect someone to make reasonable efforts to ascertain the age of someone before having sex with them when they look like they might be underage. And obviously I don't know what the girl looked like in this case, but what I will say is that while I've seen 13 year-olds who look older than they are before, I've never seen one who looks so old as to leave in no doubt that she's over the age of 16. So if you're a middle-aged businessman looking to prey on young teenagers, I think you should be expected to put the extra work in rather than just having sex with them knowing that there'll be some plausible deniability for your no doubt very highly-paid lawyer to take advantage of if it goes to court.
 
Fair point, but also given the seriousness of the offence, I don't think it's too much to expect someone to make reasonable efforts to ascertain the age of someone before having sex with them when they look like they might be underage. And obviously I don't know what the girl looked like in this case, but what I will say is that while I've seen 13 year-olds who look older than they are before, I've never seen one who looks so old as to leave in no doubt that she's over the age of 16. So if you're a middle-aged businessman looking to prey on young teenagers, I think you should be expected to put the extra work in rather than just having sex with them knowing that there'll be some plausible deniability for your no doubt very highly-paid lawyer to take advantage of if it goes to court.
As I said before that’s up to 12 ordinary people to decide, after hearing all the evidence, whether the belief was reasonably held that she was 16 or over, included in which would almost certainly be what steps the defendant took to establish the girl’s age.

Not sure I would describe most criminal lawyers as highly paid, never mind very highly paid, especially in the context of what they do and the responsibility they carry. Compared to most of the rest of the legal profession their pay is poor.
 
trouble for him is anyone accused of this type of stuff would want to clear their name, i certainly would, so he's going to be guilty if he does not turn up and he's going to be gulty in the public eye if he pays her off 'why make a pay off if your innocent', the only way is to defend himself thats if he wants to walk around with his head held up
Ask CR7 it doesn't seem to have affected his status paying off an alleged sex crime victim.
 
Fair point, but also given the seriousness of the offence, I don't think it's too much to expect someone to make reasonable efforts to ascertain the age of someone before having sex with them when they look like they might be underage. And obviously I don't know what the girl looked like in this case, but what I will say is that while I've seen 13 year-olds who look older than they are before, I've never seen one who looks so old as to leave in no doubt that she's over the age of 16. So if you're a middle-aged businessman looking to prey on young teenagers, I think you should be expected to put the extra work in rather than just having sex with them knowing that there'll be some plausible deniability for your no doubt very highly-paid lawyer to take advantage of if it goes to court.

Despite using the word nonce earlier, I don't think for one minute he is a paedophile or deliberately targeted underage girls. Although he was careless in putting himself in situation where he was likely to be commiting a crime.

He really shouldn't have met a woman who claimed to be 17 when the platform was for adults over 18.

Whenever I have come across someone on a digital platform for adults who reveals themselves to be under 18, I desisted from anything adult in conversation, make the point to them that they shouldn't be on the platform and report them as underage.

Obviously there was some deception involved from the younger girl, but I'd be doubtful that he hadn't actually noticed that she was significantly different from the self description. Even if she was were wearing heels or platforms you would notice that 4 inches disparity and question why she had lied.


Richard said that the site “drew” women who were at least 18 and “mostly in their 20s.”
In chats, the alleged victim had told him she was a 17-year-old college student who was 5ft 4ins tall and weighed seven stone.
But the court heard she was only just over five foot tall and weighed less than six stone.



 
trouble for him is anyone accused of this type of stuff would want to clear their name, i certainly would, so he's going to be guilty if he does not turn up and he's going to be gulty in the public eye if he pays her off 'why make a pay off if your innocent', the only way is to defend himself thats if he wants to walk around with his head held up

he is guilty already ?
mixing/pictured with epstein and others and the video of him hiding behind the door letting that young girl out
speaks for itself.. then doing that interview to clear his name only to make it 1000 times worst with lying

the whole lot of them are in the same boat ? prince charles being really good friends with jimmy savile says it all really
 
he is guilty already ?
mixing/pictured with epstein and others and the video of him hiding behind the door letting that young girl out
speaks for itself.. then doing that interview to clear his name only to make it 1000 times worst with lying

the whole lot of them are in the same boat ? prince charles being really good friends with jimmy savile says it all really
its right accross the board mate from the royals to MI5 and senior police and churches, no investigation about Ted Heaths antics speaks volumes,filthy bastards want stringing up
 
It absolutely is. Section 146(4) of the Licensing Act 2003 affords a defence for selling alcohol to a child if the person making the sale reasonably thought they were 18 or over. In contrast, in most States in the US selling alcohol to a minor is a strict liability offence.

I think our system is fairer, especially to shop workers on minimum wage who shouldn’t be penalised and criminalised when they have taken all reasonable precautions.

I would say the same about people who have sex with minors, given the sentences involved. I don’t see how that’s fair if someone reasonably and genuinely believed they were having consensual and legal sex that they should be punished on the basis they they knew.

What is reasonable, as ever, is up to a jury, who have listened to the evidence in order to determine whether they are sure of someone’s guilt; which is the least worst way of deciding these things, rather than via a football forum.
Didn’t stop my local offie getting prosecuted for selling booze to a 14 year old girl. And getting heavily fined.
The owner pointed her out to me once.
I didn’t know about the case.
He asked me how old I thought she was.
Tarted up to the nines she was.
I honestly thought anything between 18 to mid 20s.
 
Didn’t stop my local offie getting prosecuted for selling booze to a 14 year old girl. And getting heavily fined.
The owner pointed her out to me once.
I didn’t know about the case.
He asked me how old I thought she was.
Tarted up to the nines she was.
I honestly thought anything between 18 to mid 20s.
Depends what precautions he could demonstrate that he took. Did he ask for ID? Did he even ask her how old she was? I suspect not, especially if it was a test purchase (assuming that's what it was) as the participants most operations like that are required not to lie when asked their age. In any event, I think anyone would struggle to convince a court that someone who was 14, reasonably appeared to be 18 or over, irrespective of the truth of her appearance. That's the reality. He was probably advised to plead guilty to reduce his fine by a third.
 

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