Onholiday(somemightsay)
Well-Known Member
Please can we have spoiler alerts so I don't open these sexy images in the workplace...............
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The Album Review Club - Week #193 (page 1300) - East Side Story - Squeeze
- Thread starter RobMCFC
- Start date
journolud
Well-Known Member
No need to play this especially for the purposes of a review as it's one of my most played albums anyway but I have given it another listen this morning.
Interesting comparison for me between this their "last" album (until it wasn't) and their first In the Court of the Crimson King as the structure is similar, three songs on what used to be known as side one and then a meandering opener to side two before the epic finale. Whereas In the Court of... though had a generally light feel to it, opener 21st Century Schizoid Man apart there is a sense of brooding menace to Red that doesn't really let up.
Red
The opener is an instrumental that immediately grabs your attention and doesn't let go, setting the tone for the rest of the album.
Fallen Angel
A menacing start before the promise of something lighter with the opening words "Tears of joy at the birth of a brother..." The clues is in the title though, the story isn't going to end well and the song is almost oppressive as the story unfolds. A far far cry from Talking to the Wind, it's equivalent on their debut album. A great song.
One More Red Nightmare
Just to remind you the tone is dark, the mood is heavy. Another great track that will grab you by the throat and beat you into submission/
Providence
It took me a long time to fully appreciate this track, it occupies the space on this album that the lightweight Moonchild does on In the Court of but is less easily dismissed although it does require a bit more effort. Apparently improvised according to the brief reading I've done this morning, this is tightly wound and draws you in and sets you up for...
Starless
Simply the best prog rock song ever (sorry Suppers fans but second place isn't bad) and if you need proof of that go back to the thread on here, wherever it is where unless my memory fails me it won the vote by a landslide. This one starts slowly, gently with a sense less of menace but of beautiful melancholy. You know the tone by now though, tension builds, not a note is wasted. Another song that holds you in it's grip yet builds to a triumphant climax that somehow manages to release you and sends you on your way to spread the word.
Not many get a 10 from me. This album is 10 out of 10. A beast.
Interesting comparison for me between this their "last" album (until it wasn't) and their first In the Court of the Crimson King as the structure is similar, three songs on what used to be known as side one and then a meandering opener to side two before the epic finale. Whereas In the Court of... though had a generally light feel to it, opener 21st Century Schizoid Man apart there is a sense of brooding menace to Red that doesn't really let up.
Red
The opener is an instrumental that immediately grabs your attention and doesn't let go, setting the tone for the rest of the album.
Fallen Angel
A menacing start before the promise of something lighter with the opening words "Tears of joy at the birth of a brother..." The clues is in the title though, the story isn't going to end well and the song is almost oppressive as the story unfolds. A far far cry from Talking to the Wind, it's equivalent on their debut album. A great song.
One More Red Nightmare
Just to remind you the tone is dark, the mood is heavy. Another great track that will grab you by the throat and beat you into submission/
Providence
It took me a long time to fully appreciate this track, it occupies the space on this album that the lightweight Moonchild does on In the Court of but is less easily dismissed although it does require a bit more effort. Apparently improvised according to the brief reading I've done this morning, this is tightly wound and draws you in and sets you up for...
Starless
Simply the best prog rock song ever (sorry Suppers fans but second place isn't bad) and if you need proof of that go back to the thread on here, wherever it is where unless my memory fails me it won the vote by a landslide. This one starts slowly, gently with a sense less of menace but of beautiful melancholy. You know the tone by now though, tension builds, not a note is wasted. Another song that holds you in it's grip yet builds to a triumphant climax that somehow manages to release you and sends you on your way to spread the word.
Not many get a 10 from me. This album is 10 out of 10. A beast.
Onholiday(somemightsay)
Well-Known Member
OK, here goes with my choice. I was going to choose my favourite Italian Prog band and their album Photos Of Ghosts but then I realised that it may not be on Spotify (I have Apple Music).....Im sure many Genesis/Yes fans wouldve loved it but I couldn't take the risk.........So....
I have chose one of my favourite UK mainstream Prog albums of the 70's (Yes back to the 70s) :)
Red by King Crimson
Studio Album, released in 1974
Songs / Tracks Listing
1. Red (6:17)
2. Fallen Angel (6:03)
3. One More Red Nightmare (7:10)
4. Providence (8:10) *
5. Starless (12:17)
Total Time 39:57
View attachment 30422
Now down to a "power" trio, Fripps band powers on still with one of the planets best drummers Bill Bruford (The drums on this are sensational). Less is more on "Red", where the trio of BRUFORD, FRIPP and WETTON execute lucid arrangements of top-shelf material. The colour red conjures up images of angst, aggression, anger. Looking at the back cover of this album and seeing a gauge where the needle is in the red,
A surrealistic & distorted atmosphere prevails along this album. (I wanted to emphasize that).
The cover obviously a nod to The Beatles album "With The Beatles", a band that Fripp has declared the sole reason he became a musician. (Sting said the same this week).
There's a lot of original ideas here... each track is different from an other. The title track "Red" delivers a straight progressive instrumental improvisation built around a recurrent theme lead by Fripp very personal guitar playing. The whole thing is angst ridden and powerful with awesome drums and Bass, yes its repetitive but on Headphones it can literally blow your socks off.
The second track "Fallen Angel" tells a story (Yes Prog lyrics can make sense) is a more melodic rock structured song, sustained by well found sax & guitar arrangements. "Tears of joy at the birth of a Brother, never alone from now on" I really like that line. 'Fallen Angel' combines the clever hard rock ordainment with beautiful acoustic guitar based sections for the verses: there is a notable contrast between the controlled textures played by the mellotron, oboe and lead guitar during the verses and the freer lines played by the cornet during the choruses, which establish a frontal counterpoint to Fripp's minimalistic riffs.
"One More Red Nightmare" is a close contender and another excellent piece. Again there is a perfect blend of the three main members and the additional saxophones & oboes. This song tries to expand that sound furthur and it works wonderfully. One of the most emotional parts on this song, and the whole album is when the distortion comes in at around the 2 minute mark.
"Providence" is near to contemporary and dodecaphonic (another one of those words :)) music could be the most progressive track on the album.....Leading too...
The Big One.....Starless.
Finally, "Starless" which closes the album.
Red has the ability to turn on and turn up and pull back on the power where necessary and no more so than on the standout 12 minute plus opus "Starless" which starts of with a layer of mellotron augmented with some sympathetic guitar before the mood turns and brutality returns. John Wetton's raw voice brings a realism to the music, Im surprised his Bass speakers didnt pop out he plays it so hard eventually, and though "Starless" is a song of epic proportions there is no large scenes of pomposity that graced and flooded earlier King Crimson songs, and certainly no medieval grace that tarnished others.
Everything is saturated and built with layers of intense gentleness and distortion which makes Wetton's bass sound quite menacing along side Fripp's guitar but rather than thrash out big loud riffs much of the material on Red is well composed and each section is coherent and tautly conceived, I think every second of this album was meticulously planed out by Fripp, the perfectionist genius.
Starless is a strong contender for my favourite Prog opus, along with Close To The Edge.
This album hasn't aged and is a good start for Crimson as is their first album In The Court Of The Crimson King. I sincerely hope those who dont know this album come to love it as much as I do.
Starless... How menacing is that Mellotron !! 12 minutes of incredible music.
Lovely write up BW...........
Another album that I have not heard of.
While searching on Spotify I noticed the cover for In the Court of the Crimson King which has always interested me in my local library but never took out.Good old 80's.
So looking forward to listening to both if I find Red interesting enough.
While searching on Spotify I noticed the cover for In the Court of the Crimson King which has always interested me in my local library but never took out.Good old 80's.
So looking forward to listening to both if I find Red interesting enough.
PragueBlue
Well-Known Member
Not something I expect to enjoy but will give it a good listen and a fair go.
Citizen of Legoland
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- Joined
- 15 Jan 2013
- Messages
- 11,977
Had another listen to the album, although it is one I own so am already vaguely familiar with it. (I got it as a present one year so didn't acquire it by choice but have only played it a handful of times).
I think the problem with King Crimson for me, as opposed to bands like Genesis or Yes, is that I have only ever been vaguely aware of them and only relatively recently came by this album, so I don't have that connection I have with other prog acts. I knew about Yes and Genesis in the early 80s and back then I investigated their earlier work so it's familiar now, but King Crimson didn't get this chance and thus now seem very prog to me. While there are bits of it I like there's also a fair bit I don't. Sadly the vocals on this album don't do it for me in the same way as Gabriel or Anderson do on their work and I much preferred the instrumental sections as a result.
Obviously a very talented and respected band and maybe if I ever find an album of theirs that hooks me in I'll be converted, but for now it's 5 / 10 from me.
I think the problem with King Crimson for me, as opposed to bands like Genesis or Yes, is that I have only ever been vaguely aware of them and only relatively recently came by this album, so I don't have that connection I have with other prog acts. I knew about Yes and Genesis in the early 80s and back then I investigated their earlier work so it's familiar now, but King Crimson didn't get this chance and thus now seem very prog to me. While there are bits of it I like there's also a fair bit I don't. Sadly the vocals on this album don't do it for me in the same way as Gabriel or Anderson do on their work and I much preferred the instrumental sections as a result.
Obviously a very talented and respected band and maybe if I ever find an album of theirs that hooks me in I'll be converted, but for now it's 5 / 10 from me.
FogBlueInSanFran
Well-Known Member
Phew! Just spent that last 15 minutes catching up on the thread. Well, I was hoping for a move away from songs that are longer than 5 minutes, but this record will be a fun one — it’s one of the few by KC I don’t remember well. I owned their three early 80s ones and Crimson King and Larks’ Tongue, I think, and I still have my League of Crafty Guitarists t-shirt from college. Fripp always seemed better in concept than execution but he also contributed to and even produced some of my favo(u)rite 80s records. Well done Bill!
Onholiday(somemightsay)
Well-Known Member
Been doing a bit of reading in prep for our latest venture, I feel like this genre has completely passed me by (obviously until you guys continuously keep dragging me into the long grass) but that I'm also not getting it's origins or the driving force for it;
Wiki
Progressive rock is varied and is based on fusions of styles, approaches and genres, tapping into broader cultural resonances that connect to avant-garde art, classical music and folk music, performance and the moving image.[17] Although a unidirectional English "progressive" style emerged in the late 1960s, by 1967, progressive rock had come to constitute a diversity of loosely associated style codes.[18] When the "progressive" label arrived, the music was dubbed "progressive pop" before it was called "progressive rock",[19][nb 2] with the term "progressive" referring to the wide range of attempts to break with standard pop music formula.[21] A number of additional factors contributed to the acquired "progressive" label: lyrics were more poetic; technology was harnessed for new sounds; music approached the condition of "art"; some harmonic language was imported from jazz and 19th-century classical music; the album format overtook singles; and the studio, rather than the stage, became the focus of musical activity, which often involved creating music for listening, not dancing.[22]
Critics of the genre often limit its scope to a stereotype of long solos, overlong albums, fantasy lyrics, grandiose stage sets and costumes, and an obsessive dedication to technical skill (Hi @Bill Walker ;-) ).[23] While progressive rock is often cited for its merging of high culture and low culture, few artists incorporated literal classical themes in their work to any great degree,[24] and only a handful of groups purposely emulated or referenced classical music.
Did these artists effectively start pushing the boundaries of possibility on the back of something like a Quadraphenia or similar (rock on a bigger scale and production), and trying to pursue an almost theatre like output or am I missing the mark as usual?
BW, not remotely looking to de-rail the thread on your pick but I thought it best placed as it ties in..............
Wiki
Progressive rock is varied and is based on fusions of styles, approaches and genres, tapping into broader cultural resonances that connect to avant-garde art, classical music and folk music, performance and the moving image.[17] Although a unidirectional English "progressive" style emerged in the late 1960s, by 1967, progressive rock had come to constitute a diversity of loosely associated style codes.[18] When the "progressive" label arrived, the music was dubbed "progressive pop" before it was called "progressive rock",[19][nb 2] with the term "progressive" referring to the wide range of attempts to break with standard pop music formula.[21] A number of additional factors contributed to the acquired "progressive" label: lyrics were more poetic; technology was harnessed for new sounds; music approached the condition of "art"; some harmonic language was imported from jazz and 19th-century classical music; the album format overtook singles; and the studio, rather than the stage, became the focus of musical activity, which often involved creating music for listening, not dancing.[22]
Critics of the genre often limit its scope to a stereotype of long solos, overlong albums, fantasy lyrics, grandiose stage sets and costumes, and an obsessive dedication to technical skill (Hi @Bill Walker ;-) ).[23] While progressive rock is often cited for its merging of high culture and low culture, few artists incorporated literal classical themes in their work to any great degree,[24] and only a handful of groups purposely emulated or referenced classical music.
Did these artists effectively start pushing the boundaries of possibility on the back of something like a Quadraphenia or similar (rock on a bigger scale and production), and trying to pursue an almost theatre like output or am I missing the mark as usual?
BW, not remotely looking to de-rail the thread on your pick but I thought it best placed as it ties in..............
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
The reference to classical music is everywhere. Genesis, ELP in particular, Caravan, Yes, you can here its influence everywhere. Bloody hell ELP reworked Pictures at an Exhibition.While progressive rock is often cited for its merging of high culture and low culture, few artists incorporated literal classical themes in their work to any great degree,[24] and only a handful of groups purposely emulated or referenced classical music.
Hart of the Matter
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 23 Jul 2011
- Messages
- 5,180
More like it.... Real prog... 10 and then 10 again and again and again.
Awesome, powerful, beautiful, brutal, tender and gripping. No other album comes as close to capturing the essence of Prog. More concise and focussed than Court, more tuneful than Larks. This has it all. Best listened to loud and out of it. Let it thump and pulverise and the release and lull.
Introduced this to my metal head son. Couldn't believe it was a mid seventies record. All of a sudden Nine Inch Nails and Tool made sense to him in a historical context. Starless an obvious highlight among many.
Awesome, powerful, beautiful, brutal, tender and gripping. No other album comes as close to capturing the essence of Prog. More concise and focussed than Court, more tuneful than Larks. This has it all. Best listened to loud and out of it. Let it thump and pulverise and the release and lull.
Introduced this to my metal head son. Couldn't believe it was a mid seventies record. All of a sudden Nine Inch Nails and Tool made sense to him in a historical context. Starless an obvious highlight among many.
FogBlueInSanFran
Well-Known Member
And my issue is and always will be that all of prog’s characteristics do not, and indeed cannot, definitionally make it “better” music than other genres, especially its complexity and its “poetic” lyrics, which very often make specific tunes, records and bands worse.Been doing a bit of reading in prep for our latest venture, I feel like this genre has completely passed me by (obviously until you guys continuously keep dragging me into the long grass) but that I'm also not getting it's origins or the driving force for it;
Wiki
Progressive rock is varied and is based on fusions of styles, approaches and genres, tapping into broader cultural resonances that connect to avant-garde art, classical music and folk music, performance and the moving image.[17] Although a unidirectional English "progressive" style emerged in the late 1960s, by 1967, progressive rock had come to constitute a diversity of loosely associated style codes.[18] When the "progressive" label arrived, the music was dubbed "progressive pop" before it was called "progressive rock",[19][nb 2] with the term "progressive" referring to the wide range of attempts to break with standard pop music formula.[21] A number of additional factors contributed to the acquired "progressive" label: lyrics were more poetic; technology was harnessed for new sounds; music approached the condition of "art"; some harmonic language was imported from jazz and 19th-century classical music; the album format overtook singles; and the studio, rather than the stage, became the focus of musical activity, which often involved creating music for listening, not dancing.[22]
Critics of the genre often limit its scope to a stereotype of long solos, overlong albums, fantasy lyrics, grandiose stage sets and costumes, and an obsessive dedication to technical skill (Hi @Bill Walker ;-) ).[23] While progressive rock is often cited for its merging of high culture and low culture, few artists incorporated literal classical themes in their work to any great degree,[24] and only a handful of groups purposely emulated or referenced classical music.
Did these artists effectively start pushing the boundaries of possibility on the back of something like a Quadraphenia or similar (rock on a bigger scale and production), and trying to pursue an almost theatre like output or am I missing the mark as usual?
BW, not remotely looking to de-rail the thread on your pick but I thought it best placed as it ties in..............
OB1
Well-Known Member
“Red” might better have been called “Black” as I reckon it might be the most joyless album in my collection. I definitely do not love the sound of this record.
“Red” is an ok instrumental but “Fallen Angel” is a pedestrian dirge with, at times, awful vocals from the poor man’s Greg Lake.
“One more Red Nightmare” is the best track on the album.
Providence is 4 – 5 minutes of tuning up followed by three minutes of three guys seemingly playing different songs. Technically adept rubbish.
Starless is OK but after reading how it was such a classic, I was disappointed on first hearing it and nothing has changed. Starts off slower than a three-legged tortoise but with a memorable rather melancholy guitar motif and then spends ages sounding like a black hole giving birth (or taking a shit) but at least it births a jazzy sax solo and lively guitar solo; however, it’s a long wait.
Some of the music reminds me of Rush circa Hemispheres but without the song writing ability.
Bruford is a talented drummer.
5/10
“Red” is an ok instrumental but “Fallen Angel” is a pedestrian dirge with, at times, awful vocals from the poor man’s Greg Lake.
“One more Red Nightmare” is the best track on the album.
Providence is 4 – 5 minutes of tuning up followed by three minutes of three guys seemingly playing different songs. Technically adept rubbish.
Starless is OK but after reading how it was such a classic, I was disappointed on first hearing it and nothing has changed. Starts off slower than a three-legged tortoise but with a memorable rather melancholy guitar motif and then spends ages sounding like a black hole giving birth (or taking a shit) but at least it births a jazzy sax solo and lively guitar solo; however, it’s a long wait.
Some of the music reminds me of Rush circa Hemispheres but without the song writing ability.
Bruford is a talented drummer.
5/10
Onholiday(somemightsay)
Well-Known Member
That's a bit of an understatement :-)“Red” might better have been called “Black” as I reckon it might be the most joyless album in my collection. I definitely do not love the sound of this record.
“Red” is an ok instrumental but “Fallen Angel” is a pedestrian dirge with, at times, awful vocals from the poor man’s Greg Lake.
“One more Red Nightmare” is the best track on the album.
Providence is 4 – 5 minutes of tuning up followed by three minutes of three guys seemingly playing different songs. Technically adept rubbish.
Starless is OK but after reading how it was such a classic, I was disappointed on first hearing it and nothing has changed. Starts off slower than a three-legged tortoise but with a memorable rather melancholy guitar motif and then spends ages sounding like a black hole giving birth (or taking a shit) but at least it births a jazzy sax solo and lively guitar solo; however, it’s a long wait.
Some of the music reminds me of Rush circa Hemispheres but without the song writing ability.
Bruford is a talented drummer.
5/10
He immediately stood out as soon as I started listening, his symbol work kind of reminded me a bit of Lars Ulrich (or vice versa)..............
chesterbells
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 15 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 26,901
Yep, not gonna give it the same level of analysis, but similar thoughts overall, and an identical score: 5/10 (max).“Red” might better have been called “Black” as I reckon it might be the most joyless album in my collection. I definitely do not love the sound of this record.
“Red” is an ok instrumental but “Fallen Angel” is a pedestrian dirge with, at times, awful vocals from the poor man’s Greg Lake.
“One more Red Nightmare” is the best track on the album.
Providence is 4 – 5 minutes of tuning up followed by three minutes of three guys seemingly playing different songs. Technically adept rubbish.
Starless is OK but after reading how it was such a classic, I was disappointed on first hearing it and nothing has changed. Starts off slower than a three-legged tortoise but with a memorable rather melancholy guitar motif and then spends ages sounding like a black hole giving birth (or taking a shit) but at least it births a jazzy sax solo and lively guitar solo; however, it’s a long wait.
Some of the music reminds me of Rush circa Hemispheres but without the song writing ability.
Bruford is a talented drummer.
5/10
Bill Walker
Well-Known Member
Whilst I agree with some of that, its not all correct imo.Been doing a bit of reading in prep for our latest venture, I feel like this genre has completely passed me by (obviously until you guys continuously keep dragging me into the long grass) but that I'm also not getting it's origins or the driving force for it;
Wiki
Progressive rock is varied and is based on fusions of styles, approaches and genres, tapping into broader cultural resonances that connect to avant-garde art, classical music and folk music, performance and the moving image.[17] Although a unidirectional English "progressive" style emerged in the late 1960s, by 1967, progressive rock had come to constitute a diversity of loosely associated style codes.[18] When the "progressive" label arrived, the music was dubbed "progressive pop" before it was called "progressive rock",[19][nb 2] with the term "progressive" referring to the wide range of attempts to break with standard pop music formula.[21] A number of additional factors contributed to the acquired "progressive" label: lyrics were more poetic; technology was harnessed for new sounds; music approached the condition of "art"; some harmonic language was imported from jazz and 19th-century classical music; the album format overtook singles; and the studio, rather than the stage, became the focus of musical activity, which often involved creating music for listening, not dancing.[22]
Critics of the genre often limit its scope to a stereotype of long solos, overlong albums, fantasy lyrics, grandiose stage sets and costumes, and an obsessive dedication to technical skill (Hi @Bill Walker ;-) ).[23] While progressive rock is often cited for its merging of high culture and low culture, few artists incorporated literal classical themes in their work to any great degree,[24] and only a handful of groups purposely emulated or referenced classical music.
Did these artists effectively start pushing the boundaries of possibility on the back of something like a Quadraphenia or similar (rock on a bigger scale and production), and trying to pursue an almost theatre like output or am I missing the mark as usual?
BW, not remotely looking to de-rail the thread on your pick but I thought it best placed as it ties in..............
Most symphonic Prog bands used classical music themes in their music, I can name you loads. probably a hundred from non-english speaking countries. Some bands even toured with orchestra's, The long tracks idea came from long passages of classical Concerto's.
Some say Sgt Peppers was the first to use this concept with the track A Day In The Life, an extended track using a symphony orchestra, even had seperate movements, and other bands took the genre further, Fripp from King Crimson certainly nominates "A Day In The Life" as seminal.....but most Prog fans agree that the first "full blown" Prog album was his In The Court Of The Crimson King.
Some bedtime reading for you :)
A definition of Progressive Rock Music
Progressive rock (often shortened to prog or prog rock) is a form of rock music that evolved in the late 1960s and early 1970s as part of a "mostly British attempt to elevate rock music to new levels of artistic credibility." The term "art rock" is often used interchangeably with "progressive rock", but while there are crossovers between the two genres, they are not identical.Progressive rock bands pushed "rock's technical and compositional boundaries" by going beyond the standard rock or popular verse-chorus-based song structures. Additionally, the arrangements often incorporated elements drawn from classical, jazz, and world music. Instrumentals were common, while songs with lyrics were sometimes conceptual, abstract, or based in fantasy. Progressive rock bands sometimes used "concept albums that made unified statements, usually telling an epic story or tackling a grand overarching theme."
Progressive rock developed from late 1960s psychedelic rock, as part of a wide-ranging tendency in rock music of this era to draw inspiration from ever more diverse influences. The term was applied to the music of bands such as King Crimson, Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull, Soft Machine and Emerson, Lake and Palmer. Progressive rock came into most widespread use around the mid-1970s. While progressive rock reached the peak of its popularity in the 1970s and early 1980s, neo-progressive bands have continued playing for faithful audiences in the subsequent decades.
Musical characteristics
Form: Progressive rock songs either avoid common popular music song structures of verse-chorus-bridge, or blur the formal distinctions by extending sections or inserting musical interludes, often with exaggerated dynamics to heighten contrast between sections. Classical forms are often inserted or substituted, sometimes yielding entire suites, building on the traditional medleys of earlier rock bands. Progressive rock songs also often have extended instrumental passages, marrying the classical solo tradition with the improvisational traditions of jazz and psychedelic rock. All of these tend to add length to progressive rock songs, which may last longer than twenty minutes.
Timbre (instrumentation and tone color): Early progressive rock groups expanded the timbral palette of the then-traditional rock instrumentation of guitar, organ, bass, and drums by adding instruments more typical of jazz or folk music, such as flute, saxophone and violin, and more often than not used electronic keyboards, synthesizers, and electronic effects. Some instruments – most notably the Moog synthesizer and the Mellotron – have become closely associated with the genre.
Rhythm: Drawing on their classical, jazz, folk and experimental influences, progressive rock artists are more likely to explore time signatures other than 4/4 and tempo changes. Progressive rock generally tends to be freer in its rhythmic approach than other forms of rock music. The approach taken varies, depending on the band, but may range from regular beats to irregular or complex Time Signatures.
Melody and Harmony: In prog rock, the blues inflections of mainstream rock are often supplanted by jazz and classical influences. Melodies are more likely to be modal than based on the pentatonic scale, and are more likely to comprise longer, developing passages than short, catchy ones. Chords and chord progressions may be augmented with 6ths, 7ths, 9ths, and compound intervals; and the I-IV-V progression is much less common. Allusions to, or even direct quotes from, well-known classical themes are common. Some bands have used atonal or dissonant harmonies, and a few have even worked with rudimentary serialism.
Texture and imagery: Ambient soundscapes and theatrical elements may be used to describe scenes, events or other aspects of the concept. For example, Leitmotif is used to represent the various characters in Genesis' "Harold the Barrel" and "Robbery, Assault and Battery." More literally, the sounds of clocks and cash registers are used to represent time and money in Pink Floyd's The Dark Side of the Moon.
Other characteristics
Technology: To aid timbral exploration, progressive rock bands were often early adopters of new electronic musical instruments and technologies. The mellotron, particularly, was a signature sound of early progressive bands. Pink Floyd utilized an EMS Synthi A synthesizer equipped with a sequencer on their track "On the Run" from their 1973 album Dark Side of the Moon. In the late 1970s, Robert Fripp, of King Crimson, and Brian Eno developed an analog tape loops effect (Frippertronics). In the 1980s, Frank Zappa used the Synclavier for composing and recording, and King Crimson utilized MIDI-enabled guitars, a Chapman Stick, and electronic percussion.
Concept albums: Collections of songs unified by an elaborate, overarching theme or story are common to progressive rock. As songs by progressive rock acts tend to be quite long, such collections have frequently exceeded the maximum length of recorded media, resulting in packages that require multiple vinyl discs, cassettes, or compact discs in order to present a single album. Concepts have included the historical, fantastical, and metaphysical, and even, in the case of Jethro Tull's Thick as a Brick, poking fun at concept albums.
Lyrical themes: Progressive rock typically has lyrical ambition similar to its musical ambition, tending to avoid typical rock/pop subjects such as love, dancing, etc., rather inclining towards the kinds of themes found in classical literature, fantasy, folklore, social commentry or all of these. Peter Gabriel (Genesis) often wrote surreal stories to base his lyrics around, sometimes including theatrical elements with several characters, while Roger Waters (Pink Floyd) combined social criticism with personal struggles with greed, madness, and death.
Presentation: Album art and packaging is often an important part of the artistic concept. This trend can be seen to have begun with The Beatles' Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band and played a major part in the marketing of progressive rock. Some bands became as well known for the art direction of their albums as for their sound, with the "look" integrated into the band's overall musical identity. This led to fame for particular artists and design studios, most notably Roger Dean for his work with Yes, and Hipgnosis for their work with Pink Floyd and several other progressive rock groups.
Stage theatrics: Beginning in the early 1970s, some progressive rock bands began incorporating elaborate and sometimes flamboyant stage theatrics into their concerts. Genesis lead singer Peter Gabriel wore many different colourful and exotic costumes in one show and frequently acted out the lyrical narrative of the songs, and the band used lasers and giant mirrors synchronized with the music. Yes incorporated futuristic stage sets designed by Roger Dean, including massive spaceship props and complex lighting. Yes also performed 'in-the-round', with the band on a round stage set up in the middle of the arena. Jethro Tull released rabbits on stage (see here). One of ELP's many stage antics include Emerson's "flying piano" at the California Jam concert, in which a Steinway grand piano would be spun from a hoist. Pink Floyd used many stage effects, including crashing aeroplanes, a giant floating pig, massive projection screens, and, in 1980, an enormous mock brick wall for The Wall performances. Rush incorporated lasers and film backdrops into their stage show. Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention used a giant giraffe prop and did improvisational comedy skits. Marillion's former lead singer Fish wore a jester costume inspired by the band's first album, Script for a Jester's Tear.
mancity2012_eamo
Well-Known Member
I like this band but am leaning very much in your direction on this album.“Red” might better have been called “Black” as I reckon it might be the most joyless album in my collection. I definitely do not love the sound of this record.
“Red” is an ok instrumental but “Fallen Angel” is a pedestrian dirge with, at times, awful vocals from the poor man’s Greg Lake.
“One more Red Nightmare” is the best track on the album.
Providence is 4 – 5 minutes of tuning up followed by three minutes of three guys seemingly playing different songs. Technically adept rubbish.
Starless is OK but after reading how it was such a classic, I was disappointed on first hearing it and nothing has changed. Starts off slower than a three-legged tortoise but with a memorable rather melancholy guitar motif and then spends ages sounding like a black hole giving birth (or taking a shit) but at least it births a jazzy sax solo and lively guitar solo; however, it’s a long wait.
Some of the music reminds me of Rush circa Hemispheres but without the song writing ability.
Bruford is a talented drummer.
5/10
I’ve played this album before and know it’s revered by Crimson aficionados but I think OB1 is spot on.
I’ve gone through it once but will wait until the weekend when I can belt it out hopefully before deciding on a score.
Bill Walker
Well-Known Member
I agree Foggy, I dont know any Prog fans who claim it to be "better" than any other genre (Only Jazz fans do that) hahaha.And my issue is and always will be that all of prog’s characteristics do not, and indeed cannot, definitionally make it “better” music than other genres, especially its complexity and its “poetic” lyrics, which very often make specific tunes, records and bands worse.
Prog lasted about 7 years or so, before Punk blew it away. I think some Prog bands took things too far and pretentious. I liked ELP music but I thought they overdid the "pretentiousness" , not so much musically but the way they toured with several large trucks full to the brim with gear (most of it silly and pointless), I never liked Rick Wakemans wizard cape or Gabriels dress and Fox head, or Fish's Jester outfit. Overly pretentious for my taste.
I saw Prog as a genre that encompassed other forms like Jazz, Classical and Folk, it greatly interested me, we were swamped with fantastic 3 minute songs in the 60s and 70s so it was good to get you teeth into an arty and clever Suppers Ready or Starless. The Closer To The Edge it got, the better !
Its just another genre. Some like it, some dont. My sort of era was the early 70s, when all the big name Prog bands were.....Big! So I was heavily influenced by them. When I learned Bass guitar I played in a Prog band, I used to run a Prog forum and I have efrieinds all over the world due to the Prog forum. Theyre a decent bunch, but I dont know any who claim Prog is better than anything else. If it doesnt appeal, it doesnt appeal.
Bill Walker
Well-Known Member
Give it a couple or more spins mate, it is indeed a "grower" it probably took me 6 months to fully appreciate this album.I like this band but am leaning very much in your direction on this album.
I’ve played this album before and know it’s revered by Crimson aficionados but I think OB1 is spot on.
I’ve gone through it once but will wait until the weekend when I can belt it out hopefully before deciding on a score.
I think some posters condemn things too early. Its only been posted today and there wont be another for a week !!
You cant really "get" this music in a day. (well maybe some can LoL)
Time surely to have a few listens to see if it grabs you, if it does I can assure you it will give you pleasure for years to come, it IS quality music. But give it the week out. There is a reason why it is voted so highly by critics and fans.
FogBlueInSanFran
Well-Known Member
King Crimson’s fatal flaw hasn’t been so much hooks or God knows skills, but always — ALWAYS — that they can’t find a singer. Meaning Robert Fripp won’t ever let the (his, and only his) band have a real one, which is why he went through a half dozen. And make no mistake, John Wetton isn’t a real one. Fripp would just as soon ask a woman in front of the mike as he would ask his dog to perform differential calculus. I’ll return to this at the end, but maybe let’s focus on Red first.
No question this is harder in spots than I’ve heard them, and good for them. Often this sounds like rougher-edged, slower, deeper Rush, with the upfront bass and manic drum fills and the tempo changes, save the sax, and few woodwind appearances. By the way, I can take sax in rock (like The P Furs) and here it adds a ton of bite, and I really liked it.
“Starless” I found somewhat overwrought but in general it gains power as it picks up momentum. The standout for me though is the opener “Red.” This one went right into my Spotify and as I listened I vaguely recall one bong-laden evening some 40 years ago hearing this and not remembering what it was the next day, and being annoyed. No more, thanks to @Bill Walker. This ain’t no prog — it’s fucking rock and roll, babe. How did Soundgarden never cover it? Great stuff.
“Providence” however is improvisational wank drippings and belongs nowhere near this record. It doesn’t fit sonically nor tonally. The other two have that singer problem, though “Nightmare”s heaviness and sprightly simulated handclaps helps paper over the mediocrity.
So I’ll figure a 6 musically, but leaning 7, like Foxtrot, with the stuff I liked easily enough to outweigh “Providence”.
To return to the singer problem — rather than talk it, I’ll show you. Here’s a clip of IMO KC’s best song, sung by two amateur teenage women (and played by some incredibly talented teenagers!) and it knocks the original (sung by Adrian Belew) out of the park.
Next comes the Fripp-produced Roches — real singers — with one of the most beautiful sad songs ever recorded, with — guess who — Fripp playing guitar (and Levin and Bruford, also of KC at the time, playing on the rest of the record). The whole album is fabulous and it’s basically KC playing (but not singing nor writing).
IMO both these are better than anything on Red, though the title track admittedly continues to delight me.
No question this is harder in spots than I’ve heard them, and good for them. Often this sounds like rougher-edged, slower, deeper Rush, with the upfront bass and manic drum fills and the tempo changes, save the sax, and few woodwind appearances. By the way, I can take sax in rock (like The P Furs) and here it adds a ton of bite, and I really liked it.
“Starless” I found somewhat overwrought but in general it gains power as it picks up momentum. The standout for me though is the opener “Red.” This one went right into my Spotify and as I listened I vaguely recall one bong-laden evening some 40 years ago hearing this and not remembering what it was the next day, and being annoyed. No more, thanks to @Bill Walker. This ain’t no prog — it’s fucking rock and roll, babe. How did Soundgarden never cover it? Great stuff.
“Providence” however is improvisational wank drippings and belongs nowhere near this record. It doesn’t fit sonically nor tonally. The other two have that singer problem, though “Nightmare”s heaviness and sprightly simulated handclaps helps paper over the mediocrity.
So I’ll figure a 6 musically, but leaning 7, like Foxtrot, with the stuff I liked easily enough to outweigh “Providence”.
To return to the singer problem — rather than talk it, I’ll show you. Here’s a clip of IMO KC’s best song, sung by two amateur teenage women (and played by some incredibly talented teenagers!) and it knocks the original (sung by Adrian Belew) out of the park.
Next comes the Fripp-produced Roches — real singers — with one of the most beautiful sad songs ever recorded, with — guess who — Fripp playing guitar (and Levin and Bruford, also of KC at the time, playing on the rest of the record). The whole album is fabulous and it’s basically KC playing (but not singing nor writing).
IMO both these are better than anything on Red, though the title track admittedly continues to delight me.
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Two Gun Bob
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