Coronavirus (2021) thread

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mosssideblue said:
Agree the NHS today is made up of professionals from the four corners, but trying to get people during an epidemic, I think would prove fruitless.

How would you feel if for example, France or Germany were trying to poach our staff today?
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Its irrelevant how you and I feel about it, it happens in all walks of life and all sectors. No country has a permanent hold over their people even in difficult these times.

There are thousands of UK trained NHS staff working for Gulf States and in Saudi Arabia even now, simply because those countries pay a lot more than we do.
 
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Churchlawtonblue said:
Its irrelevant how you and I feel about it, it happens in all walks of life and all sectors. No country has a permanent hold over their people even in difficult these times.

Their are thousands of UK trained NHS staff working for Gulf States and in Saudi Arabia even now, simply because those countries pay a lot more than we do.
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Well, I'm sure were it possible to recruit from abroad, we would be looking to but, so would many other countries .

Just don't see any traction in this at current time
 
blueparrot said:
We did, but many staff have been lost, but more importantly staff have been lost in care homes and care providers so bed blocking is much worse in hospitals and causing big issues. The places we used to recruit in the E U we no longer can. Brexit.
Until we sort out social care outside of hospitals we can’t sort out hospitals.
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I understand that. My original point was that this has been going on for two years now. A government that plans things properly would be looking to recruit more staff into the NHS either through training whilst also looking to recruit from abroad. They can still offer jobs to EU countries if they are needed.

But to do both we have to incentivise people to join and train. It seems like we are doing neither sadly. The 1% pay rise last year was abyssmal and frankly pathetic. How about 20% for all front line staff for a start. Surely everyone knows now how important extra capacity in the NHS now is, everything hangs on this to keeep the country going during this pandemic.
Fail to plan and you plan to fail.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Its irrelevant how you and I feel about it, it happens in all walks of life and all sectors. No country has a permanent hold over their people even in difficult these times.

Their are thousands of UK trained NHS staff working for Gulf States and in Saudi Arabia even now, simply because those countries pay a lot more than we do.
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Yup I know two people that fucked off to NZ a couple years after qualifying for better pay/quality of life. Ah salut, can't blame em
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Its irrelevant how you and I feel about it, it happens in all walks of life and all sectors. No country has a permanent hold over their people even in difficult these times.

Their are thousands of UK trained NHS staff working for Gulf States and in Saudi Arabia even now, simply because those countries pay a lot more than we do.
Click to expand...
We are making it easier to recruit from abroad for the social care workforce that was affected by Brexit.

The issues with increasing pay for NHS clinical staff and market forces is that most other Countries / health services would increase their rates too (recognising the pandemic conditions). Secondly, the boots on the ground would be needed (if things are getting worse) now but mostly overseas recruits would need to go through adaption training. You would be redirecting some of the time if current staff to train new recruits too.

Boris had gambled on Omicron and Delta. Hopefully, this pays off and very few people wanted to see tougher restrictions or lockdowns .
 
Tim of the Oak said:
We are making it easier to recruit from abroad for the social care workforce that was affected by Brexit.

The issues with increasing pay for NHS clinical staff and market forces is that most other Countries / health services would increase their rates too (recognising the pandemic conditions). Secondly, the boots on the ground would be needed (if things are getting worse) now but mostly overseas recruits would need to go through adaption training. You would be redirecting some of the time if current staff to train new recruits too.

Boris had gambled on Omicron and Delta. Hopefully, this pays off and very few people wanted to see tougher restrictions or lockdowns .
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A newly qualified nurse gets about £25k a year, its now degree course (ridiculous decision) so they come out with huge debts. Compare that with a trades person working in the building industry. Its pitiful.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
I understand that. My original point was that this has been going on for two years now. A government that plans things properly would be looking to recruit more staff into the NHS either through training whilst also looking to recruit from abroad. They can still offer jobs to EU countries if they are needed.

But to do both we have to incentivise people to join and train. It seems like we are doing neither sadly. The 1% pay rise last year was abyssmal and frankly pathetic. How about 20% for all front line staff for a start. Surely everyone knows now how important extra capacity in the NHS now is, everything hangs on this to keeep the country going during this pandemic.
Fail to plan and you plan to fail.
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There are loads of professions needed to keep the country going, most not necessarily healthcare related, but that's not a discussion for this thread.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
A newly qualified nurse gets about £25k a year, its now degree course (ridiculous decision) so they come out with huge debts. Compare that with a trades person working in the building industry. Its pitiful.
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That’s part of the reason why the Government did a U-turn on nursing bursaries.
www.gov.uk

Nursing students to receive £5,000 payment a year

All nursing students on courses from September 2020 will receive a payment of at least £5,000 a year which they will not need to pay back.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
 
Modelling by London South Bank University has suggested a huge number of NHS staff in the capital could be off sick soon - largely due to the impact of COVID.

Professor Alison Leary, chair of workforce modelling at the university, told Sky News this would be a "worst-case scenario" but she has already been in contact with organisations who have staff sickness levels of between 25 and 28%.

She said sickness rates at usually between 4 and 5%, but they are now at 8 or 9% and are "creeping upwards".
 
I think we just have to accept that if we are going to take risks like going to New Year’s parties, the quality of NHS care we receive might not be great as services are stretched.

To me that’s pretty reasonable but it doesn’t reflect today’s ambulance chasing society.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
A newly qualified nurse gets about £25k a year, its now degree course (ridiculous decision) so they come out with huge debts. Compare that with a trades person working in the building industry. Its pitiful.
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Alas we've based our health service on cheap labour because we've not wanted to pay for it properly through taxation we can't have it both ways.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
We are making it easier to recruit from abroad for the social care workforce that was affected by Brexit.

The issues with increasing pay for NHS clinical staff and market forces is that most other Countries / health services would increase their rates too (recognising the pandemic conditions). Secondly, the boots on the ground would be needed (if things are getting worse) now but mostly overseas recruits would need to go through adaption training. You would be redirecting some of the time if current staff to train new recruits too.

Boris had gambled on Omicron and Delta. Hopefully, this pays off and very few people wanted to see tougher restrictions or lockdowns .
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I don't think Boris gambled for Delta at all. 20m Delta cases since June, mainly among the vaccinated, has given us a strong base immunity for the winter - Valance was the main driver for this and prior to Omicron arriving this was starting to pay off in spades compared to many European countries from the start of November onwards.
As to Omicron - UK Epidemiologist modellers REFUSING to accept the difference between Delta and Omicron in SA (known for 3 weeks now) as the base line for Omicron virulence is arrogance of the highest order.
Boris waiting to see the actual data before introducing further restrictions is a gamble but not much of one. Especially as throwing the UK economy under the restriction train for another 6 months is probably the bigger gamble as it would be devastating to the UK economy.
 
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