The Scottish Politics thread

[Octavian]

@Fode N The Hole has described what one is. Only you know why you exhibit those characteristics.

I don’t think England is better than other countries.

I’m sick of our nearest neighbour constantly moaning about us and the bitterness they’ve got towards England.

You and that eejit Fode have 2+2=5.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Yes, it is now. But it has also been altered to believe that having concern over ones own neighbour should not take precedent over expansion of international territory as being a negative. A little Englander cares more about their local policies, not expansionism or global policies.

Its an 'insult' by those still clinging to dreams of empire and 'Britain's place' at the top of the world. And it is not (in practice for Britain) it is specifically aimed at those who feel England and English identity should be supressed and a British Identity take precedent.

This doesn't sound coherent, particularly as many Brexiteers voted to leave the EU whilst banging on about WW2 and "we used to have an empire".

I think the mentality accurately described by little Englander and an offensive six letter word are more borne out of insecurity than anything else. It's a character flaw more than it is a political identity.

E.g.the areas with the fewest immigrants expressing the greatest anti-immigrant sentiment.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Yes, it is now. But it has also been altered to believe that having concern over ones own neighbour should not take precedent over expansion of international territory as being a negative. A little Englander cares more about their local policies, not expansionism or global policies.

Its an 'insult' by those still clinging to dreams of empire and 'Britain's place' at the top of the world. And it is not (in practice for Britain) it is specifically aimed at those who feel England and English identity should be supressed and a British Identity take precedent.

Interesting.
Is Little Britain and Little England the same thing.
Genuine question MB, as I never really understood the Little Englander thing. It seems contradictory wishing for the glory of empire again and withdrawing to English nationalism at the same time.
I am getting it wrong, am I not?

 

[west didsblue]

I don’t think England is better than other countries.

I’m sick of our nearest neighbour constantly moaning about us and the bitterness they’ve got towards England.

You and that eejit Fode have 2+2=5.

You think England is better than Scotland and you take criticism of the Tory government and Johnson as a criticism of England in general.

 

[west didsblue]

Interesting.
Is Little Britain and Little England the same thing.
Genuine question MB, as I never really understood the Little Englander thing. It seems contradictory wishing for the glory of empire again and withdrawing to English nationalism at the same time.
I am getting it wrong, am I not?

Like many things the interpretation of that phrase has evolved over the years and means a different thing to most people today than it did 100 years ago.

 

[Metal Biker]

Interesting.
Is Little Britain and Little England the same thing.
Genuine question MB, as I never really understood the Little Englander thing. It seems contradictory wishing for the glory of empire again and withdrawing to English nationalism at the same time.
I am getting it wrong, am I not?

Yes, you are. Little Britain and Little England are not the same term in their originality.

Little Englander was originally a term meant to belittle those who denigrated the Empire and its expansionism in favour of caring for matter closer to home. It has since taken on the term to mean those who only focus on England and isolationism, but this is usually said by those who are generally anti-English in their own beliefs, which is closer to "Little Britain". The original term was meant to express dissatifaction with the Government shirking responsibility towards it's own citizens and their wellbeing and the sentiment began in Liberal Manchester and coined by Imperial Tories.

There were those who had tried to erase the identity of England entirely and replace it with "British" identity, similarly to what they tried to do in Ireland. There was no "England", "Ireland" or "Scotland", we were all "British", apparently. If you stated otherwise, you were mocked and ridiculed, thus "Little Englander" for anyone who cared about issues affecting English people directly. Not much has changed, it seems. Little Englanders do not want to see England (note England, not Britain) take on some sort of superpower role. They want their politicians to address inequality and poverty suffered by English citizens first before attempting to tackle the problems of the world.

 

[Octavian]

You think England is better than Scotland and you take criticism of the Tory government and Johnson as a criticism of England in general.

No I do not. England has a much greater economy and currently subsidises Scotland in tax. These are facts.

The stupidest contradiction I’ve read in the 8 months I’ve been here is you criticising the decision of the UK to leave the EU but then saying Scotland will do alright outside of the UK. It’s so stupid it’s insane.

The only reason you say that, I don’t actually think you think it, is because you hate the Tories so much and the SNP hate them too.

 

[Saddleworth2]

So let’s discuss little England on a Scottish politics thread.
jeez why not someone start a little England thread ?

 

[Saddleworth2]

I don’t think England is better than other countries.

I’m sick of our nearest neighbour constantly moaning about us and the bitterness they’ve got towards England.

You and that eejit Fode have 2+2=5.

Define constantly moaning. What and who are Scots moaning about? Specific is good.

 

[Phil1]

Yes, you are. Little Britain and Little England are not the same term in their originality.

Little Englander was originally a term meant to belittle those who denigrated the Empire and its expansionism in favour of caring for matter closer to home. It has since taken on the term to mean those who only focus on England and isolationism, but this is usually said by those who are generally anti-English in their own beliefs, which is closer to "Little Britain". The original term was meant to express dissatifaction with the Government shirking responsibility towards it's own citizens and their wellbeing and the sentiment began in Liberal Manchester and coined by Imperial Tories.

Little Englander denigrated the growth of the Empire, especially as expansionism shirked responsibility to those living in poverty in England at the time. There were those who had tried to erase the identity of England entirely and replace it with "British" identity, similarly to what they tried to do in Ireland.

It's pretty clear what West Dids was meaning though and it was a bit more simplistic than what you're trying to paint.
Wherever it's true or not I can't say, doubt anybody but Octavian does but just from following the thread it's obvious what he meant.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Yes, you are. Little Britain and Little England are not the same term in their originality.

Little Englander was originally a term meant to belittle those who denigrated the Empire and its expansionism in favour of caring for matter closer to home. It has since taken on the term to mean those who only focus on England and isolationism, but this is usually said by those who are generally anti-English in their own beliefs, which is closer to "Little Britain". The original term was meant to express dissatifaction with the Government shirking responsibility towards it's own citizens and their wellbeing and the sentiment began in Liberal Manchester and coined by Imperial Tories.

There were those who had tried to erase the identity of England entirely and replace it with "British" identity, similarly to what they tried to do in Ireland. There was no "England" or "Scotland", we were all "British", apparently. If you stated otherwise, you were mocked and ridiculed, thus "Little Englander" for anyone who cared about issues affecting English people directly. Not much has changed, it seems.

Thanks.
I know it is only terminology but it’s interesting all the same.

 

[Metal Biker]

So let’s discuss little England on a Scottish politics thread.
jeez why not someone start a little England thread ?

Mainly because this entire thread has focused on Scotland wanting to break away from the Union with ENGLAND. Rarely is it mentioned Scotland wanting to break away from the union with ENGLAND, WALES AND NORTHERN IRELAND.

 

[Octavian]

Define constantly moaning. What and who are Scots moaning about? Specific is good.

The amount of online comments I see claiming Scotland is being held captive and oppressed by England is depressing. The general narrative is how tough you’ve got it up there but it couldn’t be further from the truth. We have it the worst in northern England and so do some in Wales. Then the constant moaning about the Tory government when Scotland’s voting helps put them there. The only party capable of winning against the Tories are 3rd in Scotland. The anti Tory thing is big part of it but let’s not pretend that a Labour victory means Sturgeon and her army pack their bags and go away. They still win the Scottish elections.

 

[Octavian]

Mainly because this entire thread has focused on Scotland wanting to break away from the Union with ENGLAND. Rarely is it mentioned Scotland wanting to break away from the union with ENGLAND, WALES AND NORTHERN IRELAND.

Good point conveniently ignored

 

[Metal Biker]

Thanks.
I know it is only terminology but it’s interesting all the same.

Exactly, it's only terminology, yet others try and use the term as a description of others and their beliefs in order to belittle and denigrate their position. Sad fuckers, aren't they.

 

[Metal Biker]

It's pretty clear what West Dids was meaning though and it was a bit more simplistic than what you're trying to paint.
Wherever it's true or not I can't say, doubt anybody but Octavian does but just from following the thread it's obvious what he meant.

It is true; that is the origin of the term "Little Englander".

Those using the term now have it to mean it in a xenophobic stance, but the effect is the same. Its meant to denigrate any and all who hold a close and positive identity to England and the English as something negative. Calling someone who identifies as English and promotes political issues surrounding England as a "little Englander" is Anglophobic.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Mainly because this entire thread has focused on Scotland wanting to break away from the Union with ENGLAND. Rarely is it mentioned Scotland wanting to break away from the union with ENGLAND, WALES AND NORTHERN IRELAND.

Bollocks. Scotland wants independence from the U.K. you guys are the ones constantly banging on about England. We talk about Westminster. See the difference?

 

[bluethrunthru]

Mainly because this entire thread has focused on Scotland wanting to break away from the Union with ENGLAND. Rarely is it mentioned Scotland wanting to break away from the union with ENGLAND, WALES AND NORTHERN IRELAND.

ever thought Scots may like to retain a Union with the other Celtic nations and just bin us off? I don't recall a rugby international Scotland v Wales or a football game NI v Scotland referred to as the Scots meeting the "auld enemy"

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Exactly, it's only terminology, yet others try and use the term as a description of others and their beliefs in order to belittle and denigrate their position. Sad fuckers, aren't they.

There’s enough insults flying around. I’ll stay as objective as I can, thank you very much.

 

[west didsblue]

No I do not. England has a much greater economy and currently subsidises Scotland in tax. These are facts.

The stupidest contradiction I’ve read in the 8 months I’ve been here is you criticising the decision of the UK to leave the EU but then saying Scotland will do alright outside of the UK. It’s so stupid it’s insane.

The only reason you say that, I don’t actually think you think it, is because you hate the Tories so much and the SNP hate them too.

Using that idiotic argument you could just as easily say London subsidises every region of England, Scotland, Wales and NI.
Maybe you need to look at why that’s the case and then you might realise that it’s very much down to government policy over the decades to invest in infrastructure disproportionately in London. If there was equivalent investment across the U.K. you wouldn’t be sneering at Scotland for not paying their way as there would be similar opportunities right across the country. But you’re too shortsighted to realise this and see it as England somehow being superior.
There are 800,000 Scots in England which is twice as many as there are English in Scotland so their economic activity contributes to England’s wealth to the detriment of Scotland so funnily enough it makes it look like England is subsidising Scotland whereas there is an equally valid argument that Scottish resource has been exploited by England. It’s the same in every country in the world - the population gravitates to areas where there is the most opportunity and it’s down to government policy that it’s particularly noticeable in the U.K.