Russian invasion of Ukraine

Some people seem to be under the impression that democratic nations never do bad shit abroad.
They do and have done.
Just because the UK, France and others allow free speech, have freeish elections, and don't detain too many people without trial does not guarantee their actions outside their own territories are any better than the foreign policies of more authoritarian regimes.
 
In 1973 the Yom Kippur war, primarily between Israel and Egypt backed by USA and Russia respectively lasted less than 3 weeks. At one stage Richard Nixon threatened Russia with a nuclear strike if they didn’t back off supplying military aid to the Arab alliance. It was somewhat diversionary as Nixon was embroiled in the Watergate scandal but the threat was real and for many was terrifying.

As a 14 year old School boy I was dismayed, the headlines in the papers included “the world is on the brink” “world on red alert”. Our old French Studies Teacher took a perverse pleasure in telling our class our generation would probably die in a Nuclear war, I was in shreds, couldn’t sleep, couldn’t eat couldn’t study and I was a nervous wreck, my Mum got me through it.

Henry Kissinger, an American Diplomat brokered a peace deal in what become known as “shuttle diplomacy”, he was a brilliant man, should have been a President but wasn’t allowed as he was German born. At that time he was my hero, I got my life back on track as the threat of all out Nuclear war subsided.

I’m now as anxious but more angry that Russia is playing with peoples lives, I look at kids and think about the threat stupid and dangerous politicians are to their future.

We need a Henry Kissinger mark 2 to step in, diplomacy has to be the winner, if this war starts the end game is very dangerous, there is no victory for anyone.
Liz Truss says hi!!
 
Yeah but look at the side you're trying to "empathise" with.

A dictatorial regime that restricts freedoms and rights for many of its own citizens, a nation that is currently 124th in the Democracy Index and classed officially as Authoritarian by the UN. They're imagining that NATO wishes to invade, when it has no such desires.

There IS no threat from NATO except the one Russia believes in. NATO shouldn't have to negotiate the return of Crimea, it isn't Russia's to occupy. NATO owes Russia nothing. Russia isn't "backed into a corner", it's not getting its way so is perceiving peaceful nations as a threat to their ambitions.
Part of that would fit in with black and Latinos in America too to be fair.
 
Good films to watch at this present time;

Chernobyl (mini series)
Threads
The Day After
When the wind blows
WarGames
Mad Max 1-4
 
We're at the 'sales' stage where what has already been decided is sold to the public. Same as the weapons inspection / UN /WMD charade twenty years ago. This will involve further demonisation of Putin/Russia and casting the US/UK/NATO as a band of brave hobbits and dwarves with the occasional white wizard about to confront evil - all in a nice media friendly package. If anyone thinks our govts give a fuck about Ukraine or Ukrainians I have some magic beans you may be interested in.
We're at the 'sales' stage where what has already been decided is sold to the public. Same as the weapons inspection / UN /WMD charade twenty years ago. This will involve further demonisation of Putin/Russia and casting the US/UK/NATO as a band of brave hobbits and dwarves with the occasional white wizard about to confront evil - all in a nice media friendly package. If anyone thinks our govts give a fuck about Ukraine or Ukrainians I have some magic beans you may be interested
 
They already had Communist Cuba on there doorstep! That wasn’t the problem!

And, lest we skip past the fact, the US was not an expansionary force in their hemisphere, either. They do try to prop up democracies and undermine dictatorships (or did beforeTrump took a liking to the whole Dictator thing!), but are not, and do not, amass troops all along the borders of countries and then play dangerous games of chicken.

This whole notion of Russia as delicate flower just seeking to hold back the NATO hordes has to be a joke!

Or, are you just an avowed Communist, not quite seeing your beloved Fatherland as the crumbling wreck it is, dependent on an old KGB Dictator and fossil fuels for its survival, and desperate to remain a Superpower merely by dint of its weaponry, not economic might?
My goodness! I think you really need to review US history and foreign policy in South America. The Monroe Doctrine is still alive and kicking, though perhaps targeted at different nations. The US has absolutely no problem supporting dictatorships. Take the support for Pinochet or the overthrow Mosaddegh as obvious examples. That was the case before Trump, during Trump and after Trump. It was the case in South America and, even more notably at present, in the Middle East. It has engaged in countless coups, which are undemocratic by nature, and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians in order to enforce regime changes. During my lifetime, the US has caused vastly more death and destruction across the globe than Russia. It has imposed orders of magnitude more suffering on ordinary people through sanctions and economic warfare than all other countries combined. This is why, outside of certain Western countries, most people view the US as the greatest threat to world peace.

With regards to the buildup of military forces, you have to be blind, death and stupid not to see the constant operations of the US Navy in the South China Sea or in the Persian Gulf. A cursory glance at a map of US military bases will show that the US has completely encircled all its “enemies”. Most recently, Biden talked about South America being the US’s back yard. The US threatened nuclear war during the Cuban missile crisis and would not today tolerate a Chinese military buildup on its borders, so it has absolutely no moral footing. I could perhaps accept such arguments from countries like Norway or Iceland, but the US cannot lecture anyone from any kind of moral authority.

Before some schmuck replies to this crying about how Russia is illegally occupying another country or that Ukraine is sovereign and should be able to join whatever military alliance it likes… I don’t contend this. My issue is with countries like the US claiming moral authority. The US has never respected international law and uses terms like “rules based order” as euphemisms for “do what we say or else”. It currently illegally occupies both Syria and (probably) Iraq, where it has made no attempt to hide the fact that it is pilfering resources from the former. If the situation were reversed, and a Russian or Chinese military bloc were expanding in what the US considers its sphere of influence, I have no doubt that the US would be even more aggressive in asserting itself. Also, NATO is clearly NOT purely a defensive alliance, as proven by the wars in Iraq and Libya.
 
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Some people seem to be under the impression that democratic nations never do bad shit abroad.
They do and have done.
Just because the UK, France and others allow free speech, have freeish elections, and don't detain too many people without trial does not guarantee their actions outside their own territories are any better than the foreign policies of more authoritarian regimes.

Ask the people of Vietnam about France!
 
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Looking at a map of the NATO expansion since the USSR fell, you can sort of see why the Russians get twitchy about NATO expanding further but I don’t think this is what’s it’s about at all. Ukraine should call their bluff and say we won’t join NATO and will become a neutral country. See what they do then!
 
Happy Valentines Day.
From Russia with love!

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Best seller in the 70/80’s. The film of this book was also required watching too.
 

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