Russian invasion of Ukraine

I don't like Putin because he's authoritarian, homophobic, ultra conservative. In short wouldn't want to live in Russia
That doesn't mean he isn't right on some things. The West have armed many countries bordering Russia with nuclear missiles. Ukraine historically is no more a country than Catalunia or Bavaria.
And Crimea has been part of Russia for a long time. After all Florence Nightingale rose to fame in the Crimean war, where the belligerents were us, Turkey and Russia. No mention of Ukraine.
That said him wanting to restore the Russian Empire makes as much sense as Britain wanting to turn the world map pink again.
 
robbieh said:
I don't like Putin because he's authoritarian, homophobic, ultra conservative. In short wouldn't want to live in Russia
That doesn't mean he isn't right on some things. The West have armed many countries bordering Russia with nuclear missiles. Ukraine historically is no more a country than Catalunia or Bavaria.
And Crimea has been part of Russia for a long time. After all Florence Nightingale rose to fame in the Crimean war, where the belligerents were us, Turkey and Russia. No mention of Ukraine.
That said him wanting to restore the Russian Empire makes as much sense as Britain wanting to turn the world map pink again.
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Which countries bordering Russia do you think have nuclear missiles?
 
Ribble73 said:
I voted in the Referendum and millions of others did with absolutely no influence from Russia whatsoever. What I was subjected to was millions of pounds worth of Taxpayers Money of broadcasting telling me to Vote for Remain with absolutely nothing at the o
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You wasted your own by posting it back didn't you?
 
Ribble73 said:
I voted in the Referendum and millions of others did with absolutely no influence from Russia whatsoever. What I was subjected to was millions of pounds worth of Taxpayers Money of broadcasting telling me to Vote for Remain with absolutely nothing at the o
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Just because you didn’t get a leaflet written in Russian with a picture of Putin on it doesn’t mean you weren’t influenced by a campaign part funded by Russia.
 
robbieh said:
I don't like Putin because he's authoritarian, homophobic, ultra conservative. In short wouldn't want to live in Russia
That doesn't mean he isn't right on some things. The West have armed many countries bordering Russia with nuclear missiles. Ukraine historically is no more a country than Catalunia or Bavaria.
And Crimea has been part of Russia for a long time. After all Florence Nightingale rose to fame in the Crimean war, where the belligerents were us, Turkey and Russia. No mention of Ukraine.
That said him wanting to restore the Russian Empire makes as much sense as Britain wanting to turn the world map pink again.
Click to expand...
A bit of Real-Politik at last
 
Ribble73 said:
I voted in the Referendum and millions of others did with absolutely no influence from Russia whatsoever. What I was subjected to was millions of pounds worth of Taxpayers Money of broadcasting telling me to Vote for Remain with absolutely nothing at the o
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Personally, I was swayed, with a number of things, by the 350 mil a week into the NHS but had to check as it was conveniently associated with ‘Red’. Once referenced and found to be a false flag, I soon realised that the rest of what was being put forward was a load of shit.

What we see now is what we could’ve seen back then. We’ve all been had.
 
RandomJ said:
Ukraine must be pretty tooled up by now with other countries sending weapons and what not. I doubt the Russian public have much of an appetite for this invasion to start with and that should weaken further once their sons and daughters bodies start being shipped home.
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Russia has been at war since 1993 with chechnya, areas of georgia, ukraine, in syria, in the central african republic, amongst others, they are used to bodies being shipped back.

Many russians see ukraine as part of the motherland, while still so many back Putin this won't be opposed back there by the public.
 
west didsblue said:
There is no shortage of evidence that the Russians tried to influence the 2016 presidential election in favour of Trump. The only thing not proven is whether or not he won because of that. Similarly there’s plenty of evidence that Leave.Eu’s biggest donor, Arron Banks, was funnelling Russian money to the campaign. Nothing proven but the beneficiaries of the vote are now in power so it’s likely the whole story will take time to come out in full.

So no absolute proof that it’s true but certainly no proof it wasn’t and plenty of evidence that supports the view that they did it.
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I think you are absolutely correct, and I'd go further and suggest Russia/USSR have tried to interfere in every western election and democracy since 1945, just as we worked to destabilise international communism. What I'm not sure we'll ever know is if any of the Russian interference worked. Particularly nowadays when it's nobbling social media rather than slipping a few quid to the hard left.
 
west didsblue said:
Just because you didn’t get a leaflet written in Russian with a picture of Putin on it doesn’t mean you weren’t influenced by a campaign part funded by Russia.
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I was in my late 50’s and any view I’d formed about the EU wasn’t formed in Moscow but by c30 years of EU Members hip
 
robbieh said:
I don't like Putin because he's authoritarian, homophobic, ultra conservative. In short wouldn't want to live in Russia
That doesn't mean he isn't right on some things. The West have armed many countries bordering Russia with nuclear missiles. Ukraine historically is no more a country than Catalunia or Bavaria.
And Crimea has been part of Russia for a long time. After all Florence Nightingale rose to fame in the Crimean war, where the belligerents were us, Turkey and Russia. No mention of Ukraine.
That said him wanting to restore the Russian Empire makes as much sense as Britain wanting to turn the world map pink again.
Click to expand...
1) Which ‘many countries’ have the west armed with Nukes (the answer is obviously ‘none’

2) There was also no Germany when the Crimean war took place. No Pakistan. No Bangladesh. You think we should get rid of all of them and put borders back to the 18th century? Would be good news for Britain’s GDP for sure.
 
Ribble73 said:
Proven to be untrue on both Countd
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There was certainly interference, though whether it was decisive is very much open to debate.

Here is just a small sample of what is out there on the connections between Trump and Russia.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...3903b6-8a40-4ca9-b712-716af66098fe_story.html

https://newrepublic.com/article/143...ses-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...and_it_looks_a_lot_like.html?via=gdpr-consent

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/19/trump-first-moscow-trip-215842

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2016/07/...tion-his-portrayal-of-financial-comeback.html

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...moscow-what-happened-at-miss-universe-in-2013

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/12/politics/russian-politician-us-election-intelligence/index.html

https://www.us-cert.gov/GRIZZLY-STEPPE-Russian-Malicious-Cyber-Activity

https://www.newsweek.com/2015/05/15/russias-greatest-weapon-may-be-its-hackers-328864.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...tended-to-be-texans-and-texans-believed-them/

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...ear-the-russian-group-hacking-the-us-election

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/17/russian-troll-factory-activists-protests-us-election

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/07/us/politics/russia-facebook-twitter-election.html

https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...facebook-twitter-investments-kushner-investor

https://www.thedailybeast.com/exclu...slims-to-stir-chaos-on-facebook-and-instagram

https://firstmonday.org/article/view/7090/5653

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social...nt-attack-during-key-election-moments-n827176

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/twitter-trolls-russia-donald-trump-bad-news-ap-investigation/

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/manafort-had-60m-relationship-russian-oligarch-n810541

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...ht-approval-from-putin-ally-deripaska/541677/

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...campaign-chair-misquotes-russian-media-makes/

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/08/stephen-bannon-donald-trump-alt-right-breitbart-news/

https://www.salon.com/2017/08/17/tr...hite-supremacists-russia-links-are-no-secret/

https://www.newsweek.com/2017/05/05...r-vladimir-putin-russia-fbi-mafia-584962.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/06/us/politics/jared-kushner-russians-security-clearance.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/us/politics/george-papadopoulos-russia.html

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...pro-kremlin-views-1998-consulting-russia-ties

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...9d4c84-c33b-11e7-84bc-5e285c7f4512_story.html

https://www.thedailybeast.com/micha...pushed-their-messages-in-days-before-election

https://www.dcreport.org/wp-content...profitable-history-of-russian-connections.pdf

Yale historian Tim Snyder has also set out in detail how the Russians utilised social media to influence the Brexit vote and other elections in a chapter in his book The Road to Unfreedom, and Peter Pomerantsev (another highly credible author) takes a look at how the Russian troll farms operate in this manner in his publication This is not Propaganda.

Once again, I must emphasise that this does not mean that those who voted 'Leave' invariably did so as a consequence of being swayed by online Russian activity that they were exposed to. But I am certainly persuaded that this activity did take place and that it is still happening (in the Comments section of the Daily Mail, for example).
 
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