Rather ruins the claim that Ukraine is not a country now that Putin is calling the Russian enclaves in Ukraine countries.
Russian invasion of Ukraine
- Thread starter feedmpenzaandhewillscore
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No I’m not KGB/FSB but this is historical background -which isn’t reported in the West at all. There are thousands of displaced Russians living in Railway Stations in Moscow and other parts of the old USSR in the same predicament. Literally thrown out of their houses they’ve lived in for decades in Chechnya, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan etc by ethnic cleansing.
meltonblue
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For more on that, see this acclaimed book.
Here's an extract from it.
'The characteristics of narcissistic personality disorder are well-known: a grandiose sense of self-importance or uniqueness; an exhibitionistic need for constant attention and admiration; a lack of empathy and an inability to recognize how others feel; disregard for the personal integrity and rights of others; and relationships marked by a sense of entitlement and the exploitation of others...whose minds are structured to convince them of their own superiority and for whom the idea of equality is literally inconceivable.
....Narcissists love and admire themselves for qualities for which there is no adequate foundation. Their apparent self-confidence arises from the fact that their mental stability depends on their believing in, and projecting an image of superiority...As the myth [of Narcissus] conveys, the core of narcissistic personality disorder is the obsession with an image of perfection and the absence of an authentic sense of self-worth. The narcissist's deep insecurity compels him to engage in continual exhibitionism, seeking constant attention and approval. But like the child who fears his exhibitionism will be met with ridicule, the narcissist is constantly living in fear of humiliation and shame. Should his perfect image of himself be exposed as a sham, he, like Narcissus, would die of sadness. More often, however, he flies into fits of narcissistic rage in order to keep his unstable personality structure intact.
A quirk of their psychology also means that narcissists can come across as intelligent and articulate. Because of their absolute conviction that they are always right, narcissists seldom trouble themselves with understanding other people's views. They are often incapable of listening and synthesising others' ideas with their own in order to create something new. Bereft of creativity, they excel as masters of destruction. In discussion and debate, their objective is not to reach a rational or objective conclusion, or to work together to reach a compromise. Their objective is simply to demonstrate their own superiority...Generally, narcissists do not hold onto any particular belief or consistent position...They can therefore constantly shift their stated position and adhere to this altered position as doggedly as before.
This combination of rigid certainty (they are superior to others and therefore must be right) and blatant inconsistency (shifting their position moment to moment) makes it extremely difficult for others to counteract their arguments. As a result, narcissists often come across as being intelligent, articulate and skilful negotiators - the ultimate triumph of style over substance.
The narcissist's belief that they are always right and others are always wrong means that they invariably dismiss other people's arguments with contempt. Anyone who dares to disagree with them shows themselves to not only be intellectually inferior but also as having the impertinence to question their superior knowledge. They are therefore likely to react to anyone who challenges them with active or passive aggression...
Narcissists exert a disproportionate influence on society because a number of characteristics of narcissistic personality disorder means that they are more likely to reach positions of authority than those with normal psychology. Their abiding self-confidence, their absolute certainty in their beliefs and abilities, and their sense of entitlement to positions of authority over others, means that they pursue power and authority with a passion that most others like. Their energy, doggedness, and drive - which masks an overpowering need to triumph and an inability to accept defeat - often propel them to positions of power.'
Psychopathy and paranoia are two further traits that are associated with some of the authoritarian despots that we know from history. I would very tentatively speculate that Putin might exhibit those two attributes to an extent, though I have never read a psychological profile of the guy. However, Trump is the epitome of narcissism.
Great book. I’d argue Johnson even more so than Trump tbh but agree it applies to both.
I wasn’t talking about Trump or Johnson individually. The connections involved of those that wanted those results to happen though is hardly a conspiracy, it’s out in the open.
The result of Brexit is more catastrophic than the margin as it resulted in seismic change, of which we’ve still not felt the full impacts, and the rift has remained longer as a consequence to that. Yes we’d still have had one but not to the same extent and the wheel would have moved on. US is an entirely different underlying issue so not too much of a comparable aside from the methods used to get in to power.
Both for another thread though.
Nonsense. We wouldn't have the same fracture with the status quo. We wouldn't have the lorry queues, the red tape, the cost to the economy, the risk of wrecking peace in Ireland. True, we might not have had people realising how crap Brexit is, as most now do, but it could hardly have been as much of a fracture as actually leaving the EU. It's not exactly unified the UK, has it?
FogBlueInSanFran
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Tucker Carlson and J.D. Vance are either "I don't caring" about Ukraine or outright shilling for Putin and have done for some time. You may be right, but the issue is IF the narcissist is somehow beholden to Russia and IF the followers are beholden to do as the narcissist bids/does, then if A=B and B=C then A=C. The polarisation is connected to the lockstep structural belief of the cult and that social media can spread that but not create it. The problem was the connectivity of Russian leadership to Trump in the first place.
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese
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It is possible to make any connections you like though. Let's face it, Ian Hughes didn't sit down to write his book as an impartial observer who was happy with how things are playing out. I'm not saying Russia (or more likely China) are not up to mischief, but I doubt either have any where near the leverage on our UK election results as Rupert Murdoch, who must be delighted that we are all looking at Putin.
True I did not like the results, but there is far too much evidence that suggests they had a major influence in them.
This isn't a VAR is bent thread :-)
meltonblue
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I agree. Doesn’t change the fact that they tried to though and any interference in elections should always be challenged and called out. I’d argue that particularly includes governments releasing full details of inquiries into it in a timely manner ;)
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese
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Haha, as soon as a govt orders an inquiry you know the outcome will be a long way off and the blame will be spread as thinly and widely as possible!
Chilcot, Hutton, Hillsborough, bloody Sunday,Grenfell (still waiting) and I'm sure there are many more. An inquiry is a process by which you delay and water down any conclusion until public outrage has dissipated (imho).
I’m not remotely anti Foreigner-far from it
-be whatever colour/creed etc. I voted against the idiotic EU State and all it stands for. And the idiotic eastward expansionist project of the EU to the Ukraine has led us to the impass we are in right now with Russia.
WestGorton
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So you are Russian. I don't know about that but if true that isn't right either
Yeah! Who in their right mind would stand for this lunacy?
The shits!
Article 3
(ex Article 2 TEU)
1. The Union's aim is to promote peace, its values and the well-being of its peoples.
2. The Union shall offer its citizens an area of freedom, security and justice without internal frontiers, in which the free movement of persons is ensured in conjunction with appropriate measures with respect to external border controls, asylum, immigration and the prevention and combating of crime.
3. The Union shall establish an internal market. It shall work for the sustainable development of Europe based on balanced economic growth and price stability, a highly competitive social market economy, aiming at full employment and social progress, and a high level of protection and improvement of the quality of the environment. It shall promote scientific and technological advance.
It shall combat social exclusion and discrimination, and shall promote social justice and protection, equality between women and men, solidarity between generations and protection of the rights of the child.
It shall promote economic, social and territorial cohesion, and solidarity among Member States.
It shall respect its rich cultural and linguistic diversity, and shall ensure that Europe's cultural heritage is safeguarded and enhanced.
4. The Union shall establish an economic and monetary union whose currency is the euro.
5. In its relations with the wider world, the Union shall uphold and promote its values and interests and contribute to the protection of its citizens. It shall contribute to peace, security, the sustainable development of the Earth, solidarity and mutual respect among peoples, free and fair trade, eradication of poverty and the protection of human rights, in particular the rights of the child, as well as to the strict observance and the development of international law, including respect for the principles of the United Nations Charter.
6. The Union shall pursue its objectives by appropriate means commensurate with the competences which are conferred upon it in the Treaties.
SWP's back
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1) There’s overwhelming evidence it affected both elections. Literally mountains of the stuff
2) You don’t think Trump in control of the US helped Russia’s position, especially in terms of foreign policy? Really?
Better the EU with all its faults and then some more than Putin's iron shackles on a brave and democratic people.
Nearly a century ago now, none of the countries Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan marched into were governed perfectly but their peoples were a damn sight unhappier after the conqueror arrived. It's ironic how Putin uses the same arguments about defending Russians in eastern Ukraine that Hitler used as his excuse to take over the Sudetenland.
BlueRockape
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so the daft cûnt is going for it.
Time to dig out me old boots and tin hat
Time to dig out me old boots and tin hat
Ifwecouldjust.......
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Or until the majority of the people wronged have passed away ... so you dont need to compensate them.
feedmpenzaandhewillscore
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Have our resident plane trackers not seen any of these up flying yet? That’s when we know to start whitewashing the windows and stockpiling loo role.
JOGAMIGMOG
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The only slight crumb of comfort is that the Americans and the rest of us haven’t got Trump directing the West’s response!
dave_blue12
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I also note that other Brexit shill is on GB News blaming the EU and taking a pro Putin stance.
Banks, Farage, Johnson et al belong in prison.
And still we have apologists on here and elsewhere who will not see the truth.