Russian invasion of Ukraine

MillionMilesAway said:
While I can understand that Ben Wallace was speaking in an informal setting, what does "Putin has gone full Tonto" mean?
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I don't know but I am pissing myself. 'What ever you do, never go full Tonto'

I need to know what it means.

Edit; apparently in Spanish The word for crazy is Tonto so sadly it means that rather than anything to do with the Lone Ranger
 
Blue Mist said:
I don't know but I am pissing myself. 'What ever you do, never go full Tonto'

I need to know what it means.

Edit; apparently in Spanish The word for crazy is Tonto so sadly it means that rather than anything to do with the Lone Ranger
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Crazy/mad/stupid in Spanish
 
Bazzmand Show said:
Politics and media in the US is really down the absolute shitter.

It's just turned into total mud slinging, so outlets like Fox are siding with Russia in order to make Biden look bad.
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Yup it's more about slinging shit at your opponents rather than looking out for your country and the world's interests even at a time like this for clicks.
 
BobKowalski said:
I think some conflict within the Donbas region is inevitable, hence the call up in Ukraine. You don’t march 200k troops to a disputed border and expect no tension or conflict. At this stage, we can only hope it doesn’t extend beyond Donbas, albeit that is easy for me to say and is cold comfort for those in the region and for Ukraine as a whole.

There is strong public support for Ukraine across the political spectrum in Germany. The German left seems far more realistic about Putin than the left in the UK or the US. Perhaps being closer to the problem focuses the mind. I think Nordstream is dead for the foreseeable future. Politically it has become toxic.

Equally the US right seem to be fully on board the Putin express along with some Brexit fans in the UK who seem more motivated at seeing Putin ‘humiliate’ European leaders or blaming the EU (Lord Owen in the Express) for daring to accommodate the wishes of the Ukrainians, as if self-determination is not something Ukraine should aspire to.

Given the reaction here to the Govt sanctions and reality not matching the bombast, I expect there will be additional measures announced.
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the government have already said that they have a strategic coordinated list of sanctions given how far Russia goes. I guess coordinated means with the other NATO Countries
 
SWP's back said:
Remember two weeks ago when half a dozen in here said the US and U.K. intelligence services were full of shit and it was all a load of bollocks to help Boris and Biden’s news cycle at home?
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A lot of people take for granted what they read on Facebook. They all bought into the idea it was western propaganda and it was the US trying to provoke a war. You don’t put nearly 200k troops on the border of a country just for a laugh. Add in the fact that the intelligence agencies had evidence of an invasion and predicted everything that has happened so far.

Stop watching cryptic Facebook videos/photos you fucking balloons.
 
SWP's back said:
Remember two weeks ago when half a dozen in here said the US and U.K. intelligence services were full of shit and it was all a load of bollocks to help Boris and Biden’s news cycle at home?
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Contrary politics aided by echo chamber social media backslapping to support a narrative. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary some wont swim against the tide of the group they are a part of.
 
You can usually see how things will eventually pan out but I can't in this case. Will Putin just take the east of Ukraine or will he take the lot? He won't back down and a land war can't be won by anyone, I hope the sanctions are escalated to cripple him but that will take time.
Some sort of withdrawal with an agreement is the best outcome, fuck knows what that looks like but wars never end with everyone on one side dead so there has to be an agreement further down the line?
 
blue cigar said:
You can usually see how things will eventually pan out but I can't in this case. Will Putin just take the east of Ukraine or will he take the lot? He won't back down and a land war can't be won by anyone, I hope the sanctions are escalated to cripple him but that will take time.
Some sort of withdrawal with an agreement is the best outcome, fuck knows what that looks like but wars never end with everyone on one side dead so there has to be an agreement further down the line?
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I don't see any real threat of Russia occupying Ukraine as a whole. The three regions they've either annexed or declared as independent states are the only areas with any semblance of a Pro-Russian agenda. Places like Kiev are pro-independence and it would be very difficult to manage that population of people. There might be a land war (probably ending with a pro-Moscow leader in Ukraine - which was the status quo a decade ago), but I see it as being incredibly unlikely that we'll see the entire country annexed or absorbed into Russia.
 
BobKowalski said:
I think some conflict within the Donbas region is inevitable, hence the call up in Ukraine. You don’t march 200k troops to a disputed border and expect no tension or conflict. At this stage, we can only hope it doesn’t extend beyond Donbas, albeit that is easy for me to say and is cold comfort for those in the region and for Ukraine as a whole.

There is strong public support for Ukraine across the political spectrum in Germany. The German left seems far more realistic about Putin than the left in the UK or the US. Perhaps being closer to the problem focuses the mind. I think Nordstream is dead for the foreseeable future. Politically it has become toxic.

Equally the US right seem to be fully on board the Putin express along with some Brexit fans in the UK who seem more motivated at seeing Putin ‘humiliate’ European leaders or blaming the EU (Lord Owen in the Express) for daring to accommodate the wishes of the Ukrainians, as if self-determination is not something Ukraine should aspire to.

Given the reaction here to the Govt sanctions and reality not matching the bombast, I expect there will be additional measures announced.
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Agreed. If our objective is to make Russia think again then we need to also up our game in sending weapons to Ukraine.

Russia has a non-contact military doctrine that will likely result in a cyber and long range missile attack in the first instance aimed at knocking out command and control centres and any massed forces/armoury. Under that doctrine the troops are the second wave for clean up operations which make anti tank missiles - whilst a big fan fare - a bit of a tokenism. Ukraine have some longer range missile batteries themselves but are likely to be fairly easily observed by the Russians and knocked out - so what they really need are missile defence system - we could send some of our rapier missile defence system, it’s being replaced but could offer some counter to Russian strategy and make them think again, which is supposed to be the whole point of sanctions.
 
Chevelle said:
What does everyone think will de-escalate the situation? In starting to wonder if it had little to do with NATO now.
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I think it's fairly clear that was just Putin's excuse. His real ambition appears to be to re-create the Soviet empire with Russia at the centre and as many client states that he can get away with. Belarus is already there and Ukraine is the obvious next target being a European non-NATO country. Wouldn't surprise me if Moldova and Georgia were next as they already have Russian backed separatist areas (Transnistria and Abkhazia respectively), so the same pretext for an invasion can be used.
 
west didsblue said:
I think it's fairly clear that was just Putin's excuse. His real ambition appears to be to re-create the Soviet empire with Russia at the centre and as many client states that he can get away with. Belarus is already there and Ukraine is the obvious next target being a European non-NATO country. Wouldn't surprise me if Moldova and Georgia were next as they already have Russian backed separatist areas (Transnistria and Abkhazia respectively), so the same pretext for an invasion can be used.
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Russian empire, the word soviet means a govenment council of a communist state.

What he wants to build isn't a new soviet union but a tzardom
 
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