Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Deleted member 77198]

Quite, it's a bizarre suggestion.

If:
Ukraine says they won't join NATO, Putin puts say, 100k troops on the border.
"Hey, what are you doing?" says Ukraine.
"Well, you're not joining NATO, you agreed, so they have no interest in this region. Thanks for giving up the leverage, but we'll just invade anyway." says Russia.
**
Russia has demonstrated that it doesn't care about it's own agreements regarding Ukraine. Why would anyone believe that that would change.
Scorpion and the frog.

I don’t know, possibly not. But what harm is there taking him at his word? Unless you believe that Ukraine can win this war, what do they stand to lose by calling his possible bluff?

Taking Putin at his word?

Since 2007, Putin has been “dismantling the structures designed to keep peace in post-Cold War Europe. Russia formally announced in July 2007 that it would no longer adhere to the Conventional Armed Forces in Europe Treaty. It continued to reject the principle of host-nation consent for its troop presence in Georgia and Moldova, and began ignoring Vienna Convention limits on troop concentrations, exercises and transparency.

In 2008, Russia invaded Georgia, trading its peacekeepers in the regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia for regular military personnel, and driving tanks toward the capital, Tbilisi. Six years later, Russian operatives took over Crimea and rapidly orchestrated its illegal annexation by Russia. Russia followed up with attacks in eastern Ukraine … Later, Russia violated the INF Treaty and began to deny overflights requested under the Open Skies Treaty.”

Opinion | The Speech In Which Putin Told Us Who He Was

In his 2007 Munich address, the Russian leader firmly rejected the post-Cold War system he's still trying to torpedo.

www.politico.com

They’ve been flaunting and breaking the rules for years. Putin used to turn up to conventions and in the last decade has stopped coming. He has no interest whatsoever in what the West or NATO says or wants or would like to keep peace. He’s got his aims and he’s going to go through with them.

 

[Indaparkside]

Put the were in NATO so won't happen bit aside

If another country invaded the UK would you fight to protect it, or surrender and let them occupy and rule?

Most would fight, some would not.

The scousers wouldn’t there scouse not English:)

 

[Paul1970]

The dead can't fight.

They can in game of thrones

 

[SPIDERBOY]

Clearly telling everyone to stay out of it.....



"Whoever tries to interfere with us, and even more so, to create threats for our country, for our people, should know that Russia's response will be immediate and will lead you to such consequences that you have never experienced in your history.

"We are ready for any development of events. All necessary decisions in this regard have been made."

 

[west didsblue]

I don’t know, possibly not. But what harm is there taking him at his word? Unless you believe that Ukraine can win this war, what do they stand to lose by calling his possible bluff?

We’ve spent the last 10 years letting Putin get his way. Putin has made it very clear that he doesn’t recognise Ukraine as a sovereign nation. Any concessions encourages him to go further. There is absolutely no evidence that giving in to any of his bullshit demands will stop this. It is far more likely he’d see it as western weakness and go further.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Clearly telling everyone to stay out of it.....



"Whoever tries to interfere with us, and even more so, to create threats for our country, for our people, should know that Russia's response will be immediate and will lead you to such consequences that you have never experienced in your history.

"We are ready for any development of events. All necessary decisions in this regard have been made."

He’s about ten steps ahead of all of us as well. No matter what we do, he’s got a plan and all of them are bad for us.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Clearly telling everyone to stay out of it.....



"Whoever tries to interfere with us, and even more so, to create threats for our country, for our people, should know that Russia's response will be immediate and will lead you to such consequences that you have never experienced in your history.

"We are ready for any development of events. All necessary decisions in this regard have been made."

Said every bully ever.

Sooner or later, someone stands up to them.

 

[Homar]

Ukraine has been worried about Russia for decades and it’s why they were thinking of joining NATO.

Russia moans that it’s NATO that are creeping up to Russia when it’s Ukraine that’s worried that Russia will invade.

Surely both can be true? Ignoring the concerns of the other side is a great way to start a conflict. If you make an honest effort to allay their fears, and they still invade, then their rationale is clear.

 

[SPIDERBOY]

Said every bully ever.

Sooner or later, someone stands up to them.

Yes,but when this bully says it.....he fuckin means it.

 

[Indaparkside]

I blame Donald trump

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I hate to break it to you, but Russia is hardly the first country to invade another. The west are far from innocent in this regard. Nevertheless, I don’t think anyone is claiming that Ukraine doesn’t have the right to join whatever alliance it wants. It is now in a position where it must choose between the path that has brought about its invasion or to negotiate its way out.

We sadly still live in a world where the might is right.

Good one!

Tell me again…

What egregious action did Ukraine do that “brought about this invasion”?

And, who do they talk to about “negotiating its way out”?

 

[MadchesterCity]

On the off chance some Russian spies are reading this, I heard that the entire NATO fleet are currently based on an industrial wasteland on the north west coast of Britain, at the end of a road called the M62. It’d be a shame if it were carpet bombed.

Just be wary of the feral locals.

I heard Salah was a commie spy! Umbrella assassination!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Yes,but when this bully says it.....he fuckin means it.

Then, let’s all bow at his feet and hope we don’t fall foul of his ire, shall we?

 

[Sir peace frog]

Clearly telling everyone to stay out of it.....



"Whoever tries to interfere with us, and even more so, to create threats for our country, for our people, should know that Russia's response will be immediate and will lead you to such consequences that you have never experienced in your history.

"We are ready for any development of events. All necessary decisions in this regard have been made."

Is he bluffing?

 

[hateutd]

.....WHEN THE LEADERS SPEAK OF PEACE
The common folk know
That war is coming.
When the leaders curse war
The mobilization order is already written out.

THOSE AT THE TOP SAY: PEACE
AND WAR
Are of different substance.
But their peace and their war
Are like wind and storm.

War grows from their peace
Like son from his mother
He bears
Her frightful features.

Their war kills
Whatever their peace
Has left over.

ON THE WALL WAS CHALKED:
They want war.
The man who wrote it
Has already fallen.
.....
THE WAR WHICH IS COMING
Is not the first one. There were
Other wars before it.
When the last one came to an end
There were conquerors and conquered.
Among the conquered the common people
Starved. Among the conquerors
The common people starved too.
......
WHEN IT COMES TO MARCHING MANY DO NOT
KNOW
That their enemy is marching at their head.
The voice which gives them their orders
Is their enemy's voice and
The man who speaks of the enemy
Is the enemy himself......

Bertolt Brecht

 

[SPIDERBOY]

Is he bluffing?

I certainly hope so,but with this crazy bastard,you never know.

 

[SWP's back]

So Ukraine can burn or cease to exist, but at least the west can say they didn’t concede… What exactly does Ukraine get out of that?

When the only two people that like your post are chief contrarians @bluesteel and @Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese then it’s usually a sign it’s a shit argument.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Is he bluffing?

So far he isn’t. He’s probably laughing at how easy it’s been for him so far and knows he can push this a lot further and we won’t do a fucking thing about it.

 

[bluesteel]

Clearly telling everyone to stay out of it.....



"Whoever tries to interfere with us, and even more so, to create threats for our country, for our people, should know that Russia's response will be immediate and will lead you to such consequences that you have never experienced in your history.

"We are ready for any development of events. All necessary decisions in this regard have been made."

I personally took that as, “we will use nuclear weapons on any country who tries to get involved and it’s already been signed off”.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

The Ukraine say they won't join Nato and Putin's 'peacekeeping force' will need to stay to make sure that the Ukrainians keep to their word. He is the 21st century Napoleon and Joe Stalin rolled into one. And then there's the question of 'lebensraum'! Now where have I heard that before?