Russian invasion of Ukraine

mexico1970 said:
The Netherlands
The UAE
The USA
The Peoples Republic Of China
The Congo

"The" is used loads of times to describe loads of different countries, obviously there is some background to this but all I am doing is pointing out that it's not unusual.
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It is, but at the present time Ukrainians are asking people don't as to them it de-legitimises their claim to be an independent nation.
 
EU Council press release from an hour ago:

We condemn in the strongest possible terms Russia's unprecedented military aggression against Ukraine. By its unprovoked and unjustified military actions, Russia is grossly violating international law and undermining European and global security and stability.

We also condemn the involvement of Belarus in this aggression against Ukraine and call on it to abide by its international obligations.

We demand that Russia immediately ceases military actions, unconditionally withdraws all forces and military equipment from the entire territory of Ukraine and fully respects Ukraine's territorial integrity, sovereignty and independence. Such use of force and coercion has no place in the 21st century.

We will meet later today to discuss this blatant aggression and agree in principle on further restrictive measures that will impose massive and severe consequences on Russia for its action, in close coordination with our transatlantic partners.

We deplore the loss of life and humanitarian suffering. The EU and its Member States are ready to urgently provide humanitarian emergency response. We call on Russia and Russia-backed armed formations to respect international humanitarian law.

The EU stands firmly by Ukraine and its people as they face this war. The EU will provide further political, financial and humanitarian assistance.

We are coordinating our response with our neighbours and international partners, including NATO and G7 whose leaders will be meeting shortly.
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Bazzmand Show said:
Agreed, but I just think they have stockpiled for this and it's been planned for years.
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I disagree. They will have made some provisions for sure but you can't stockpile an entire country with everything they could conceivably need. Let alone for the long haul. Think things like spare parts for BMW's and Mercedes, for example. If Rolls-Royce and GE stop providing aircraft engine parts, his entire domestic aircraft fleet will soon be grounded... and maybe his military fleet.

He is gambling that we won't go this far with sanctions. The $64,000 question is, is he right?
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
Jens Stoltenberg is basically saying NATO won’t be doing anything but condemning Russia’s attack, unless Russia attacks a NATO nation. Only then will we retaliate.
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Didn't the powers that be make an agreement with Ukraine that if they agree to give up their nukes that we'd treat them as if they were a NATO member?
 
west didsblue said:
I still don't think it would be at all sensible to risk deploying one of our two seaborne assets into a sea in Russia's back yard with a single narrow entry point. Whilst the Turks who control the Bosphorus are part of NATO I wouldn't trust Erdogan as far as I could throw him.
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There is always the Baltic sea or the Northern approaches.
 
Kirkstall Blue said:
“Denazification“of Ukraine what on earth does Putin mean by that denazification ?
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Nothing - its made up bollock to justify extreme behaviour - our own Culture Sec recently displayed the same level of bullshit with this speech

In his speech on Monday, Dowden sought to suggest that “woke” ideology was weakening the west at a time when it is facing threats from aggressive states such as Russia. “Rogue states are seeking to challenge the international order. And at the precise point when our resolve ought to be strongest, a pernicious new ideology is sweeping our societies,” Dowden said.

“It goes by many names. In Britain, its adherents sometimes describe themselves as ‘social justice warriors’. They claim to be ‘woke’, awakened to the so-called truths of our societies. But wherever they are found, they pursue a common policy inimical to freedom.”
 
bluethrunthru said:
Nothing - its made up bollock to justify extreme behaviour - our own Culture Sec recently displayed the same level of bullshit with this speech

In his speech on Monday, Dowden sought to suggest that “woke” ideology was weakening the west at a time when it is facing threats from aggressive states such as Russia. “Rogue states are seeking to challenge the international order. And at the precise point when our resolve ought to be strongest, a pernicious new ideology is sweeping our societies,” Dowden said.

“It goes by many names. In Britain, its adherents sometimes describe themselves as ‘social justice warriors’. They claim to be ‘woke’, awakened to the so-called truths of our societies. But wherever they are found, they pursue a common policy inimical to freedom.”
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Meanwhile, guess who said this just the other day?

"The US has decided that it is necessary to send US and other Nato troops to Russia’s borders.

"As I have said elsewhere, this alone should tell us that the claims that Russia is the aggressor here should be treated very sceptically.

"The destabilisation of the entire region comes from the continued eastward expansion of Nato.
 
Watching a few foriegn news channels and a few experts on them saying they think this will be a short incursion,russia will completely destroy the Azov battalion (this is rhe denazification claim) cripple the Ukraine military bases and then pull back to occupy the full Donesk and Luhansk region setting new borders.

Ultimately even if Ukraine isn't fully occupied it will be too weak to ever be more than a buffer zone and eventually russian will get a belarusian puppet goverent installed.
 
Mad Eyed Screamer said:
I really can't understand a very wealthy man thinking let's start something that will destabilise the world and potentially lead to his ousting / his death or half the world being blown up by nuclear weapons.
Just sit their quietly with your millions and enjoy the rest of your life spending it quietly....
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He appears to be genuinely deranged - which is very very scary
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
It's not a view I share. Appeasement allowed Germany to rearm from 1934, to the extent they laid waste to most of Europe in the three years which commenced WW2.

The war would have been lost until Japan bombed Pearl Harbour.

The mobilisation of the US to be able to fight two major wars in Europe and Japan at the same time, demonstrates the huge output that country was able to afford the war effort.
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Hitler taking on the Soviets did us a favour
 
blueinsa said:
Meanwhile, guess who said this just the other day?

"The US has decided that it is necessary to send US and other Nato troops to Russia’s borders.

"As I have said elsewhere, this alone should tell us that the claims that Russia is the aggressor here should be treated very sceptically.

"The destabilisation of the entire region comes from the continued eastward expansion of Nato.
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Putin on Russian state TV?
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
So, you're for appeasement. And at what point of Putin's imperial aspirations and expansion would you say "enough is enough"?
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I said already, I’d have done more to prevent this such as allowing nord stream 2 and giving Russia NATOs missile defence system, I think NATO should also have invited Russia to join every time a former eastern block nation joined.

Basically NATO should have appeased Russia IMO. If an offer to join NATO was made, and refused, and if an offer of a defence system was made, to make them feel less nervous, and they moved their troops to the Ukrainian border, I would have offered Ukraine emergency NATO membership and rolled the NATO troops into Ukraine. Maybe that would have caused a war between NATO and Russia and that’s why it wasn’t done? Either way my heart goes out to all the Ukrainians and they are very much caught in the middle.

We’re now in a situation where Ukraine is fucked, we’ve got a pissed off country on our doorstep with nuclear weapons, and we’re talking about sanctions, which are an act of war in my opinion (cutting from swift specifically).

I don’t think NATO could have fucked this up any more if they tried.

My biggest worry now is a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, because a China, Russia, North Korea alliance is the worst case scenario here.

The best case scenario is that Russia finish doing what they are now executing, and come to the table.

NATO obviously need to defend her borders but I’d avoid any large build up of troops at borders.

You can’t just say enough is enough here, we just defend NATO borders and we wait for talks to resume.

We should be building renewables at record speed and potentially fracking in the interim NOW, I would nationalise it and sell it off later. Those are the economic sanctions I would put in place, non-aggressive and will hit them where it hurts.

Any sanctions need to be against the Russian government, not directly at it’s people (I get they’ll be punished indirectly but they can emigrate).

I want the EU and US to slowly reduce trade with Russia, with any future trade agreements dependant on Ukraine being liberated.
 
Russian troops already in Kharkiv (Kharkov) - no surprise as its not far from the Russian border. Kiev isn't that much further from the Belarusian border.
It will probably be better defended though - especially on the West Bank of the river Dnieper
 
blueinsa said:
Meanwhile, guess who said this just the other day?

"The US has decided that it is necessary to send US and other Nato troops to Russia’s borders.

"As I have said elsewhere, this alone should tell us that the claims that Russia is the aggressor here should be treated very sceptically.

"The destabilisation of the entire region comes from the continued eastward expansion of Nato.
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It's either a Corbynism or a Mister Tumblism that's been on the Columbian marching powder.
 
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