Russian invasion of Ukraine

bluesteel said:
Sure and Putin probably is a megalomaniac.

Russia have had a military base in Crimea for centuries, it’s where they have their Black Sea fleet, and is of massive strategic import should the need come for them to defend themselves.

Since the break up of the USSR Russia have leased the naval base from Ukraine.

When it looked like the Ukrainian people wanted to join the EU and more pertinently NATO it would have meant Russia losing the naval base and having a US naval base there in it’s place.

There was also the likelihood of a US military base and missile system going into Ukraine.

These are the facts as I see them.

When Russia lost its puppet president in Ukraine in the 2014 coup, the writing was on the wall that they would join NATO as they were provisionally accepted in 2008.

Almost instantaneously they annexed Crimea, there was no way that the Russians were going to give up their strategic naval base and have a US naval base replace it, the thought of that to the Russia admirals would have been incomprehensible.

Again, straight after the pro Russian president was ousted in a violent coup in Ukraine, fighting broke out in the East of the country, where it is mainly Russian speaking and not Ukrainian speaking, where it is mainly pro Russian and not pro European. This suited Putin as it meant Ukraine couldn’t join NATO, the Ukrainian army went into the east and the Russian army went into the west, a ceasefire was agreed and there was an agreement signed.

The Russian rebels held Ukrainian land in the east, and it had by an largely died down by 2021.

Russia approached NATO, and said to NATO that they want Crimea recognised as Russian and also guarantees that Ukraine will not become a US military base by being in NATO.

NATO refused. Why? Russia moved their troops to the Ukraine border, they were clearly saying in further negotiations if you do not give us guarantees, we will invade. NATO said no, why? Why would a defensive alliance, both allow and cause the invasion of Ukraine? I’m not talking about Ukraine joining the EU here, Russia were perfectly happy for them to join the EU this is about losing Sevastopol to the US and NATO and not having a US military base in Ukraine. Why do the US need military bases and missiles next to Russia?

Honestly I’m sick of NATO and the US they are jeopardising our security not enhancing it. Seriously what next? Asking Taiwan to join?
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And you seriously believe that is why NATO is to blame for the invasion?
 
bluesteel said:
Sure and Putin probably is a megalomaniac.

Russia have had a military base in Crimea for centuries, it’s where they have their Black Sea fleet, and is of massive strategic import should the need come for them to defend themselves.

Since the break up of the USSR Russia have leased the naval base from Ukraine.

When it looked like the Ukrainian people wanted to join the EU and more pertinently NATO it would have meant Russia losing the naval base and having a US naval base there in it’s place.

There was also the likelihood of a US military base and missile system going into Ukraine.

These are the facts as I see them.

When Russia lost its puppet president in Ukraine in the 2014 coup, the writing was on the wall that they would join NATO as they were provisionally accepted in 2008.

Almost instantaneously they annexed Crimea, there was no way that the Russians were going to give up their strategic naval base and have a US naval base replace it, the thought of that to the Russia admirals would have been incomprehensible.

Again, straight after the pro Russian president was ousted in a violent coup in Ukraine, fighting broke out in the East of the country, where it is mainly Russian speaking and not Ukrainian speaking, where it is mainly pro Russian and not pro European. This suited Putin as it meant Ukraine couldn’t join NATO, the Ukrainian army went into the east and the Russian army went into the west, a ceasefire was agreed and there was an agreement signed.

The Russian rebels held Ukrainian land in the east, and it had by an largely died down by 2021.

Russia approached NATO, and said to NATO that they want Crimea recognised as Russian and also guarantees that Ukraine will not become a US military base by being in NATO.

NATO refused. Why? Russia moved their troops to the Ukraine border, they were clearly saying in further negotiations if you do not give us guarantees, we will invade. NATO said no, why? Why would a defensive alliance, both allow and cause the invasion of Ukraine? I’m not talking about Ukraine joining the EU here, Russia were perfectly happy for them to join the EU this is about losing Sevastopol to the US and NATO and not having a US military base in Ukraine. Why do the US need military bases and missiles next to Russia?

Honestly I’m sick of NATO and the US they are jeopardising our security not enhancing it. Seriously what next? Asking Taiwan to join?
Click to expand...

NATO from what I understand do not request countries to join, Countries can ask to join, and if they fit the criteria it goes to a vote and every existing NATO country has to say yes for it to happen.
 
Protein Junkie said:
Anyone else remember the Doomsday clock from the 80’s ? Various songs have referenced it down the years. It’s currently set at 100 seconds to midnight.

I do wonder if there are back channels and if so what is being discussed ?

I also ask if NATO inc USA have a road map for every scenario ?

Finally I’ve seen references to possible expansion into Baltic states. They are NATO members and that is a real red line for Putin. Then I’d be worried.
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I'd imagine that soon we'll see a big NATO show of force and a mass deployment to NATO member country borders. I believe that several NATO countries have begun discussing article 4 of NATO which requires other countries to come to their aid if attacked or threatened.

The last 24 hours have been crazy. Some US/UK intelligence gathering planes were up for 20hrs straight yesterday refuelled by supporting tankers. We've seen B-52's circling over Finland and Poland, there's also a constant US drone presence over the Black Sea. More Typhoons are also being deployed east.

Putin honestly doesn't know who he's messing with and he'd have to be bloody mad to go further than he already has.
 
bluesteel said:
Sure and Putin probably is a megalomaniac.

Russia have had a military base in Crimea for centuries, it’s where they have their Black Sea fleet, and is of massive strategic import should the need come for them to defend themselves.

Since the break up of the USSR Russia have leased the naval base from Ukraine.

When it looked like the Ukrainian people wanted to join the EU and more pertinently NATO it would have meant Russia losing the naval base and having a US naval base there in it’s place.

There was also the likelihood of a US military base and missile system going into Ukraine.

These are the facts as I see them.

When Russia lost its puppet president in Ukraine in the 2014 coup, the writing was on the wall that they would join NATO as they were provisionally accepted in 2008.

Almost instantaneously they annexed Crimea, there was no way that the Russians were going to give up their strategic naval base and have a US naval base replace it, the thought of that to the Russia admirals would have been incomprehensible.

Again, straight after the pro Russian president was ousted in a violent coup in Ukraine, fighting broke out in the East of the country, where it is mainly Russian speaking and not Ukrainian speaking, where it is mainly pro Russian and not pro European. This suited Putin as it meant Ukraine couldn’t join NATO, the Ukrainian army went into the east and the Russian army went into the west, a ceasefire was agreed and there was an agreement signed.

The Russian rebels held Ukrainian land in the east, and it had by an largely died down by 2021.

Russia approached NATO, and said to NATO that they want Crimea recognised as Russian and also guarantees that Ukraine will not become a US military base by being in NATO.

NATO refused. Why? Russia moved their troops to the Ukraine border, they were clearly saying in further negotiations if you do not give us guarantees, we will invade. NATO said no, why? Why would a defensive alliance, both allow and cause the invasion of Ukraine? I’m not talking about Ukraine joining the EU here, Russia were perfectly happy for them to join the EU this is about losing Sevastopol to the US and NATO and not having a US military base in Ukraine. Why do the US need military bases and missiles next to Russia?

Honestly I’m sick of NATO and the US they are jeopardising our security not enhancing it. Seriously what next? Asking Taiwan to join?
Click to expand...

You have got it seriously bad.

Id like to debate this subject with you but it’s utterly pointless.
 
GaudinoMotors said:
India - a county whose strap line is "the World's largest democracy", yet can't say anything when that democracy is destroyed elsewhere - v disappointing.
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That's our foreign policy. We have good ties with both Israel and Palestine, both Russia and USA, both Iran and Saudi Arabia. Russia has been a trustworthy friend of us for decades, and helped us during the 1971 war with Pakistan. Our greatest weapon 'Brahmos' (Brahmaputra-Moscow) was made with Russian partnership. They are our biggest defence supplier. Just a few months back, we purchased 5 units of S-400 for 5 billion USD .
Do you really expect India to speak against Russia ? Our neighbouring country Myanmar got took over by military and we did nothing. Our concern is only Pakistan and China. Anything happening beyond is not in our interests, be it democracy or dictatorship.
 
Russian tank ran over a civilian's car this morning, the footage is shocking, amazingly the driver survived.


Nothing to see here just Russia committing war crimes.
 
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vmsuhail said:
That's our foreign policy. We have good ties with both Israel and Palestine, both Russia and USA, both Iran and Saudi Arabia. Russia has been a trustworthy friend of us for decades, and helped us during the 1971 war with Pakistan. Our greatest weapon 'Brahmos' (Brahmaputra-Moscow) was made with Russian partnership. They are our biggest defence supplier. Just a few months back, we purchased 5 units of S-400 for 5 billion USD .
Do you really expect India to speak against Russia ? Our neighbouring country Myanmar got took over by military and we did nothing. Our concern is only Pakistan and China. Anything happening beyond is not in our interests, be it democracy or dictatorship.
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Let’s all hope Pakistan and China don’t decide to take your sovereignty away one day and you demand everyone takes your side.

Expect you to speak up like the vast majority of the democratic world? Yes.
 
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