Russian invasion of Ukraine

urban genie said:
Nearly 8000 russian personel were kilked in the second chechen war that went on for years

I really doubt numbers dead matters to Putin as long as he achieves his aims.
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If that was true then they wouldn’t be lying and saying they’ve had zero casualties and cutting off access to Facebook and Twitter in Russia.
 
Eccles Blue said:
Now our own Clive Myrie, I’ve just watched Mastermind which I recorded earlier and then there he is in Kyiv taking shelter underground with Lyse Doucet. Stay safe both of you and all reporters and everyone over there.
Oh crikey now Zinchenko and the Everton player.
Sorry, sorry I’ll stop now but I probably won’t stop crying!
I was born in 1941 so have empathy with those poor children.
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You should go onto Mastermind, specialist subject John boy Stones!
 
BobKowalski said:
I’m not an expert, but as I understand it SWIFT is what makes the world tick and it isn’t easily bypassed. Equally it’s not a magic bullet either, it just makes life more difficult for Russia. Moscow hotels are getting people with international credit cards to settle bills in anticipation of them not working once the SWIFT measures kick in. All the measures are designed to make like difficult for Russia and pressure an already ailing economy. But the measures work as a package.

People are right to be disappointed with Germany and Italy putting themselves in a position of weakness with Russia over energy. But it won’t get corrected overnight, just as the City of London isn’t going to fully stop mainlining Russian money if it can help it. So, yes, there is some foot dragging and it will take more political pressure to get there, but we have gone a lot further collectively in the last few days than I ever thought we would and that is important as I see it.
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I think that is a good summary of where we are Bob.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
Ukraine is isolated in terms of boots on the ground. That said, Ukraine are getting a lot of intelligence help and would have been informed of Russia’s plans to invade and surround Kiev, weeks ago. Commentators have tried to make out that Russia’s invasion was a surprise but it was nailed on.

it’s been reported in the press that the Ukrainian army has destroyed a convoy of Chechen special forces / Russia’s kill squad. If that is true then I think the Ukrainians would have benefitted from military intelligence from NATO countries. These things don’t happen by chance.

Weapons support to Ukraine is increasing but it might be too late.
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Yeah good point. I think of them as being isolated but they have got strong backing haven’t they?
 
BringBackSwales said:
That’s the spirit. Ukrainians die and lose their homes and livelihoods whilst the rest of the world worries about still trading with russia
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It's a reality I'm afraid, I don't like it one bit , I've been an advocate on energy independence for a long long time. Western governments relying on Putin to supply their gas and oil plus other commodities was always going to end badly.
 
unexpected item said:
A couple of good accounts to follow in Insta and Twitter for military updates.

As someone who served in Germany during the Cold War, and who was constantly told how effective Russian armour was, I'm encouraged by the number of Russian convoys that are being destroyed.

https://www.instagram.com/ukraine_defence/

https://twitter.com/RALee85
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Are tanks today easy targets because of their bulk and lack of relative speed against modern weapons?

Sounds like Putin has sent a lot of his troops to an early grave. Sadly, he will recognise that sooner, rather than later and bomb the fuck out of the place before sending them in again.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
It's a reality I'm afraid, I don't like it one bit , I've been an advocate on energy independence for a long long time. Western governments relying on Putin to supply their gas and oil plus other commodities was always going to end badly.
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As I told you yesterday, 3 days ago the German economy and climate minister said they could get by without russian energy by (1) buying gas from elsewhere (2) buying coal from elsewhere (3) running down gas inventories. He said it would be difficult but not impossible. I assume herr habeck has some idea what he is talking about
 
mosssideblue said:
Are tanks today easy targets because of their bulk and lack of relative speed against modern weapons?

Sounds like Putin has sent a lot of his troops to an early grave. Sadly, he will recognise that sooner, rather than later and bomb the fuck out of the place before sending them in again.
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A lot of the convoys are running out of fuel it seems, plus their occupants are poorly motivated and in the dark as to what the real mission is. Ukraine is a huge country which means the Russian supply lines are stretched as they try to take ground quickly.

But yes, the anti-tank weapons (Brit NLAW and American Javelin and others) supplied by the west are very effective. Turkey also supplied four TB2 drones which the Russians have no defence against.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
It's a reality I'm afraid, I don't like it one bit , I've been an advocate on energy independence for a long long time. Western governments relying on Putin to supply their gas and oil plus other commodities was always going to end badly.
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Completely agree that it would be massively better if we were not dependent upon their oil and (especially) their gas.

But what can Putin do with the foreign currency he receives? He doesn't need to it pay rubles - he can print them. He needs hard western currencies - dollars, Euros and GBP - in order to buy western goods and services.

That's why IMO the most punitive sanctions we can impose are trade bans. We should be making it illegal to sell pretty much anything to Russia.
 
BringBackSwales said:
As I told you yesterday, 3 days ago the German economy and climate minister said they could get by without russian energy by (1) buying gas from elsewhere (2) buying coal from elsewhere (3) running down gas inventories. He said it would be difficult but not impossible. I assume herr habeck has some idea what he is talking about
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They haven't tho have they, politician tells lies is not a surprise.

Provide a reason why not all Russian banks have been excluded from swift other than it being directly linked to allowing trade to continue?

And if you are allowing trade to continue logic dictates that you will still trade the one thing that your country needs?
 
We are not dependent!!!! It's true it was simply more convenient and commercial.
There will be some rejigging and price rises but we are not "dependent".

The swampies and nimbys may need to rethink their stance on franking longer term.
 
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Chippy_boy said:
Completely agree that it would be massively better if we were not dependent upon their oil and (especially) their gas.

But what can Putin do with the foreign currency he receives? He doesn't need to it pay rubles - he can print them. He needs hard western currencies - dollars, Euros and GBP - in order to buy western goods and services.

That's why IMO the most punitive sanctions we can impose are trade bans. We should be making it illegal to sell pretty much anything to Russia.
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I agree, but he holds a strong hand while western governments are so reliant on his gas. He is banking on western governments not being willing to inflict significant economic hardship on their people.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
I agree, but he holds a strong hand while western governments are so reliant on his gas. He is banking on western governments not being willing to inflict significant economic hardship on their people.
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Yes but my point is, buying his gas is only half the story. He sells us gas, we give him Euros. But what does he do with them? He can't eat them. They are used to buy western goods and services and if we won't sell any goods or services to him, his Euros are useless.

Think Siemens manufacturing equipment spares - so his factories won't run. BMW spares, so his Oligarchs' cars won't run, etc. It's a long haul for sure though. And I guess he can still use them to buy stuff from China :-(
 
Chippy_boy said:
Yes but my point is, buying his gas is only half the story. He sells us gas, we give him Euros. But what does he do with them? He can't eat them. They are used to buy western goods and services and if we won't sell any goods or services to him, his Euros are useless.

Think Siemens manufacturing equipment spares - so his factories won't run. BMW spares, so his Oligarchs' cars won't run, etc. It's a long haul for sure though. And I guess he can still use them to buy stuff from China :-(
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I would guess China would sell at a special ( inflated ) price too
 
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