Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Prestwich_Blue]

Atomic scientist?

Close. He was an Unclear Scientist.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Well yes it was definitely a stupid post :) but I would imagine the alarms go off when the US/Russia etc launch a missile in the general direction of each other and they probably wouldn't wait to work out its trajectory is the point I was poorly making.

One missile can be tracked by either side. (Not sure about the brand new hypersonic weapons.) though. One missile would not trigger a massive counter strike. The military on each side is not insane. Even Putin is a sociopath and not quite a Grade-A nutter.

 

[bonespost]

You hit the ones a 3rd and 2/3’s down the column.

the front 1/3 you then concentrate on destroying, then mop up the trapped middle 1/3, leaving the final 1/3 to either try and fight through the mess or run (hence causing demoralisation)

Just like the Highway to death in Iraq 1991 .

 

[Chippy_boy]

NATO Nuclear doctine is no-first-use tit-for-tat till unless an enemy breKthrough. Fail to do it and Russia will keep doing it.

There can be no tit for tat mate. What do you suggest the west do as tit for tat, if Russia were to nuke Ukraine? Nuke a different bit of Ukraine?

No, we'd have to nuke Russia. And that is not tit for tat, it's a huge escalation which would risk the lives of countless millions in the west. It would be an absolute disaster.

I know that's not what anyone wants to hear but you cannot copy madman tactics when dealing with a madman.

Sadly, I think the best outcome at this point is that Ukraine falls quickly and with the minimum of further casualties, and from there we can continue to apply sanctions, to use all diplomatic channels and to try to negotiate some kind of compromise deal which may allow some of Ukraine some degree of independence.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Huge price increases and wiping out of their savings mainly.

‘The damage is done’: Russians face economic point of no return

Shoppers and business people express despair and disillusion as sanctions cause run on rouble

www.theguardian.com

Think the question will be whether Putin can make them continue to believe it’s the west’s fault rather than his own. I don’t think he’s started the pr battle any better than he has the invasion tbh.

I am afraid we are going to have to do this - make it agony for every Russian from the bottom to the top. If you look at the collapse of Eastern Europe once the people were suffering enough and realised the answer was to overthrow the regime be it from the ship yards in Gdansk to Ceaucescu in Romania they rose up knowing that they may have to take losses for the greater good.

Didn't happen in the GDR because Honeckers lot could see the writing was on the wall ( sorry ) and opened the gates to prevent a blood bath there. Are Russian sailors, soldiers and airmen really going to turn on the millions of Russian civilians - can't see it myself. For a start its their friends and families that would be suffering and at the end of the day a gaggle of old men when threatened would take flight and be more interested on saving their own skins than suppressing civil unrest.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Just like the Highway to death in Iraq 1991 .

Yeah I thought it had that potential too

 

[Chris in London]

Welcome to your evening bulletin from Mordor, where the President's race to make us more isolated than North Korea gathers pace. Apologies for any repetition of stuff already in the thread. Have been busy and it moves so quickly I just can't read it all.

Some pretty horrifying footage of the bombardment of Kharkov. This is one of the best disposed cities to Russia outside Donbass, not far from the border and with plenty of those Russian=speakers they're supposed to be desperate to protect. Shows that latter claim up for the transparent lie it is.

Looks like they could be planning something even worse for Kiev. I dread to think what news we may wake up to on that score.

Meanwhile, the US Embassy has suggested that American nationals consider leaving now, while there are still a few commercial flights out. Makes you think, even when you're not an American.

I've predictably had to cancel a trip home to visit my mother, who's 88 and with failing eyesight as well as a plethora other medical conditions. She was widowed last summer, has two kids who both live abroad, and is struggling a bit on her own for the first time in 50-odd years.

That's pretty upsetting, as I also cancelled my last planned trip at Christmas owing to travel restrictions imposed following the UK Covid outbreak. But save your thoughts and prayers for the natives of Kharkov and Kiev. They need them far, far more.

PS - Five million roubles would have been 50 grand in sterling last week. By the end of this week, it'll probably just about buy them a new telly.

Thanks for posting, good to hear from you.

Presumably if push came to shove you and Mrs P could get a ferry across to Estonia and fly home from there?

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

More avoiding it.

 

[Octavian]

That just looks like one massive sitting duck to me.

I know fuck all about being in the military but if it were me I wouldn’t put those vehicles so close together.

The Ukrainians only have to hit the vehicles at the front and the back and the ones in the middle won’t be going anywhere, they will be picked off and blown to shit for fun.

Time the US gave them some more drones.

 

[DrBlueBob]

I have two nieces of a similar age. Is it mad or brave to drive past a tank of an invading army and single handedly bomb it from zero feet?

 

[KS55]

They spent 50 years trying to kill Castro and failed every time.

But that was the Americans. We have Bond.

 

[DrBlueBob]

Hey Pete, I'm literally a couple minutes up the road if your mum ever needs anything and still reside in Alty?

No trouble, whatsoever. Drop me a PM if you ever do need someone closer at hand.

Best wishes.

Just make sure she's within three miles Tolm otherwise you'll run out of puff.

 

[Octavian]

There can be no tit for tat mate. What do you suggest the west do as tit for tat, if Russia were to nuke Ukraine? Nuke a different bit of Ukraine?

No, we'd have to nuke Russia. And that is not tit for tat, it's a huge escalation which would risk the lives of countless millions in the west. It would be an absolute disaster.

I know that's not what anyone wants to hear but you cannot copy madman tactics when dealing with a madman.

Sadly, I think the best outcome at this point is that Ukraine falls quickly and with the minimum of further casualties, and from there we can continue to apply sanctions, to use all diplomatic channels and to try to negotiate some kind of compromise deal which may allow some of Ukraine some degree of independence.

The sad thing is that I was thinking the same today, the best thing for my safety and the safety of the UK and the West generally, is for Ukraine to lose this war fast and hope Putin quits whilst he’s ahead.

Of course I hope one of his inner circle knifes the **** to death in his sleep and restores normal order as a new leader but that’s unlikely.

 

[SWP's back]

I think the point he is making is that R-M had inside knowledge and was able to take advantage of that and dumped his shares. I thought this was ‘insider trading’ and is illegal?

Dumping/selling your own shares because you think/know that the share price will drop based on publically available information is not insider trading.

Plus that’s not what happened.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Think we were talking the other day about the meeting between Russia and the UAE that was scheduled to happen today? It did go ahead, albeit not physically in Moscow, via phone.

Meet:

Definition:

1. arrange or happen to come into the presence or company of (someone).
   "a week later I met him in the street"
   
   Similar:
   encounter
   
   meet up with
   
   come face to face with
   
   make contact with
   
   run into/across
   
   come across/upon
   
   chance on
   
   happen on
   
   light on
   
   stumble across/on
   
   bump into
   
   
   
   2. touch or join.
   "icebergs are created when glaciers meet the sea"
   
   ..................................
   
   So it was a phone call then.
   
   

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

But that was the Americans. We have Bond.

Yeah, but he might be Roger Moore in A View To A Kill. Get me Connery from Goldfinger and we’ll talk. Actually, get me Jill St. John from Diamonds Are Forever.

 

[Bill Walker]

This will all pale into insignificance with next weeks Match day thread

I'm not too sure about that.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

There can be no tit for tat mate. What do you suggest the west do as tit for tat, if Russia were to nuke Ukraine? Nuke a different bit of Ukraine?

No, we'd have to nuke Russia. And that is not tit for tat, it's a huge escalation which would risk the lives of countless millions in the west. It would be an absolute disaster.

I know that's not what anyone wants to hear but you cannot copy madman tactics when dealing with a madman.

Sadly, I think the best outcome at this point is that Ukraine falls quickly and with the minimum of further casualties, and from there we can continue to apply sanctions, to use all diplomatic channels and to try to negotiate some kind of compromise deal which may allow some of Ukraine some degree of independence.

It’s absolute fucking shit but you’re right that there is no military solution here. Only diplomatic and economic solutions and they may not be enough.

 

[KS55]

I'm no financial expert but I would of thought increased repayments for mortgages and the like.

Everything goes up in price because supply costs rise.

 

[crazyg]

It's like being in a club and the tension is building. There have been a couple of skirmishes and posturing. Some people think it's under control but you just know at any minute the whole club is going to go up. It's on a crazy downward spiral nobody can stop. That's the world right now.