Russian invasion of Ukraine

bluesteel said:
I think there’s been a logical, methodical plan that goes back a very long way, at least to 2007 when he put the world, and certainly Europe, on notice that Moscow would not accept the further expansion of NATO. And then within a year in 2008 NATO gave an open door to Georgia and Ukraine. It absolutely goes back to that juncture.

Back then I was a national intelligence officer, and the National Intelligence Council was analyzing what Russia was likely to do in response to the NATO Open Door declaration. One of our assessments was that there was a real, genuine risk of some kind of preemptive Russian military action, not just confined to the annexation of Crimea, but some much larger action taken against Ukraine along with Georgia. And of course, four months after NATO’s Bucharest Summit, there was the invasion of Georgia. There wasn’t an invasion of Ukraine then because the Ukrainian government pulled back from seeking NATO membership.”

And you clearly say:

SWP's back said:
The illegal invasion of Ukraine has NOTHING to do with NATO.

Not me embarrassing myself. That’s just you reading the bits you want to read and acting like a prick, there is a lot more to this that just NATO/Georgia/Ukraine, but you've constantly spouted shit like above (and below) on this thread ignoring key aspects of what is going on.

See this, same article

"Putin tried to warn Trump about this, but I don’t think Trump figured out what he was saying. In one of the last meetings between Putin and Trump when I was there, Putin was making the point that: “Well you know, Donald, we have these hypersonic missiles.” And Trump was saying, “Well, we will get them too.” Putin was saying, “Well, yes, you will get them eventually, but we’ve got them first.” There was a menace in this exchange. Putin was putting us on notice that if push came to shove in some confrontational environment that the nuclear option would be on the table."


Your response:

"That’s also bollocks.

Fuck me the absolute state of this thread."
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Why do you think the Russian's developed hypersonic missiles before the US?
 
SWP's back said:
Baseless argument? He wrote a 5000 word essay about it last year you ignorant twatbanana.

Every time you open your mouth, you take away any doubt whatsoever that you haven’t got the faintest clue what you’re talking about.
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It doesn’t matter that I can’t read his comment I know your reply to be correct. I think he either took financial advise to buy heavily into the rouble last week or spends all day in his mums basement wanking of to recordings on Putin’s speeches.
 
SWP's back said:
Oh my god you’re so bloody stupid. What you posted from Fiona Hill doesn’t make you right. Russia invading Ukraine does not mean it had anything to do with NATO. Ukraine we’re not joining NATO. NATO a rules dictate that they wouldn’t be able to join anyway because of the situation in Crimea (no country that has a border dispute is allowed to join).

Your “winning argument” based on what she is saying is not what you think it is. She is not saying the war is down to Ukraine joining NATO. She even says there wasn’t an invasion because the Ukrainian govt backed away from NATO membership. Well news flash, they never started the process for joining again either. NATO has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS FUCKING INVASION. Her next paragraphs state why he is invading.

If you actually take the time to read the article you keep fucking quoting then do your best to comprehend them at the same time and then you won’t look quite so idiotic to the forum.
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It's you who's starting (starting???) to look idiotic mate. Not that you care, of course.
 
Scottyboi said:


Some more staged events for everyone, mad that there are cameras everywhere how convenient.
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Yeah that comment about “and they just happened to have cameras…” as if every **** doesn’t own a camera and take it with them absolutely everywhere. Honestly, these people have a vote and get called up to sit on juries! Frightening.
 
When people blame Nato for causing this, all they can "blame" them for is accelerating what russia always intended to do. As has been said they have bordered Nato for years, this has nothing to do with Nato bordering them or for the security of russia. If nukes were a concern the distance of ukraine is making no difference with modern technology and if we get to that unfortunate stage, nowhere on earth is safe anyway. It is just one of the many lies they throw out in the hope that some stick.

Putin's problem with nato is that he knows as soon as Ukraine joins nato his ability to conquer them is gone forever, this is a desperate last attempt to regain historical russian land before it solidifies its independence from russia forever.

This is also why the "dont expand east or we will be angry" became a talking point despite never being an actual agreement, as they always intended to reintegrate land lost from the USSR in the future, they were never acting in good faith.

If not for these nations joining nato already, russia would be half way across europe by now threatening anyone who steps with nuclear war, those nations who decided to join nato have been entirely vindicated.
 
Octavian said:
Putin ordered his nukes to be on a higher level of alert for less!
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DS-Putin.jpg


MI5 just found this above Bluesteels bed.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Fair points.


Also agreed, although I cannot see the west doing anything that would *tangibly* risk WW3. I mean seriously, we have what appears to be a fairly weak US President (and his backing would be essential), 4,000 miles away, being asked to risk the lives of tens of millions of Americans in order to protect a non-NATO country that used to be part of Russia.

It's unimaginable.
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Biden is an old-fashioned Democrat brought up during the Cold War, so this is familiar territory. The idea of weakness is fashioned as much by our own perceptions than reality. Biden was said to be weak given the handling of Afghanistan. Yet Biden pursued his strategy of pulling out of Afghanistan in the face of opposition from his Generals and European allies, all wanting him to ‘delay things further’. Irrespective of whether you agree with the decision, the way in which it was pursued did not suggest a weakness of resolve. Single minded stubbornness, deaf to reason, maybe, but weak it was not.

There was much wailing about the demise of the West after Afghanistan and maybe Putin drew comfort from that, but the West has responded well over Ukraine and the Americans were on the money throughout with their view an invasion was imminent - even naming the day ( which was a bit cheeky). There was a lot of rubbishing of the American intel and how Putin was simply ‘playing’ Biden, yet Putin is the one knee deep in Ukraine with bodies piling up and his economy in the shitter, so who is ‘playing’ who now?

Countries have stepped up and the US has been the one leading. The EU nor anyone else was going to go this far on sanctions unless the US was on board. Is Biden going to risk nuclear war over Ukraine? No. I doubt any US President would, but then the US isn’t threatening nuclear war. It doesn’t have to if it keeps applying nuclear economic sanctions and that is also telling when it comes to respective strengths because the US can arse fuck Russia economically, but Russia can’t do the same to the US. All Russia has is nukes and military threats. Outside of that it’s like being threatened by Portugal.
 
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